They were not a dangerous opponent on paper, that’s why the US invaded and said it would be a “cakewalk”/“greeted as liberators”, etc. In 1991? Sure, dangerous on paper. Much less so after the highway of death and a decade of sanctions/periodic bombing
just out of curiosity do you believe, then, we should continue sending military equipment and money to Ukraine? Or that Iraq without western backing is in a similar position that Ukraine is now? I sincerely doubt Iraq ever had billions of dollars worth of military equipment, ever.
Iraq suffered from decade-long sanctions before it was invaded. It was already quite exhausted even before the sanctions after an eight-year war with Iran.
Ukraine has the support of NATO and some of the richest countries on Earth.
In 2022 ukraine was a country that had fought sense 2014, which has had significant chunck taken over by russia ,unlike iraq, ukraine didnt have the money from oil exporting
And ukraine wasnt given heavy weapons until well after the innitial attack was blunted, specificly because it was expected for ukraine to fall (also why it took soo long for ukraine to get western fighters, pilot training started during the war )
Just the blunting of the innitial attacks meant that russias goal of repeating what happened with crimea were a failure
who was ukraine fighting since 2014? they were doing ethnic cleansing in the donbas and luhansk. you’re talking as if they were already in a protracted war or some shit. after the maidan coup ukraine started receiving cia training and money. so if anything they should have been better prepared. yes, russia annexed crimea, but the extent of the conflict wasn’t big enough to weaken ukraine after a prolonged battle or some shit. in 2022 ukraine was way better positioned for a war than in 2014. what was once fringe fascist groups with guns became a full fledged white supremacist battalion with proper military training and financing, the ethnic cleansing in the oblasts were the military training they needed in order to achieve this, it made them stronger, not weaker.
on top of this, it’s more beneficial for russia to keep a protracted war with the us puppet state since this is what has been depleting us ammo and gear, which has been very beneficial for palestine, iran and yemen.
The main reason why i mentioned heavy weapons specificly despite ny innitial comment was because russia knows soviet equipment quite well
All of ukraines tanks, airdefence, fighters, attackers, counterbattery
Most of ukraines equipment was extremely well known by russia, what wasnt was in small numbers or lighter equipment
who was ukraine fighting since 2014?
As per mister putin “Зачем? Когда мы вынуждены, хочу подчеркнуть, вынуждены были защищать русскоязычное население на Донбассе, вынуждены были отреагировать на стремления людей, живущих в Крыму, вернуться в состав Российской Федерации”
Quick translation “Why? When we were forced—I want to emphasize, forced—to protect the Russian-speaking population in Donbas, forced to respond to the aspirations of people living in Crimea to return to the Russian Federation.”
So an insurgancy (or freedom fighters, doesnt make much of a diffrence here) supported by the russian goverment
you’re talking as if they were already in a protracted war or some shit. after the maidan coup
Dealing with an insurgency right after a coup
Im fairly certain that falls into the “some shit” category
More relevant to this is written later
ukraine started receiving cia training and money. so if anything they should have been better prepared.
CIA training? As in the central intelligence agency? They are an intel agency, not military advisors. And neither can do magic (like makeing soviet era leftover equipment to be anything else)
Money by itself doesnt do much, corruption is a thing and what money is the easiest to steal other then the one that officialy doesnt exist
For an example of how well cia training and money helps look at afganistan
the ethnic cleansing in the oblasts were the military training they needed in order to achieve this, it made them stronger, not weaker.
Really?
Not even claiming its fighting an insurgency but specificly “ethnic cleansing”?
I call bs
in 2022 ukraine was way better positioned for a war than in 2014.
Just how low of a bar that is was a big reason i mentioned ukraine in the first place
90s and early 00s were dealing with the soviet collapse for the eastern block
And then a horrific military situation and not exactly good economic situation, a coup, insurgancy and part of the country being invaded being placed ontop
PanArab@lemmy.ml didnt talk about wether iraq was in a better position a decade prior but rather things that effected their position at the start of the war
on top of this, it’s more beneficial for russia to keep a protracted war with the us puppet state since this is what has been depleting us ammo and gear, which has been very beneficial for palestine, iran and yemen.
1.What does this have to do with the 2022 invasion? (And thus earlier comments)
2.This war has had significant effects on russia, at the very least loss of trust due to russias failure to defend its fellow CSTO member Armenia in 2023
3.Ukraine isnt useing much of ammunition for americas systems
America is with its inefficensy
4.Russia has done the exact oposite it has given europe and america the perfect testing ground to develop counters and counterparts to what hamas, the houthis and iran are all use
Let alone rather clearly demonstrating why such systems should be developed
If it wasnt for russia then america and all of the middle east would be starting from scratch and/or heavly reliant on guess who? Israel (as they are one of the few that have had to defend against semi regular significantly sized rocket barrages)
CIA training? As in the central intelligence agency? They are an intel agency, not military advisors. And neither can do magic (like makeing soviet era leftover equipment to be anything else)
On paper is on paper
It all depends on what they are both actualy made of
On paper iraq was a dangerus oponent which would surely cause significant casualties
Just as on paper ukraine was going to fold instantly
They were not a dangerous opponent on paper, that’s why the US invaded and said it would be a “cakewalk”/“greeted as liberators”, etc. In 1991? Sure, dangerous on paper. Much less so after the highway of death and a decade of sanctions/periodic bombing
Yeah i was refering to the first gulf war
You’re reading papers made of straw and man
And yet my comment stand true does it not?
Throwing more man into the meatgrinder that is war does not do much by itself
No, your comment doesn’t stand true
Yeah, that’s why we can dismiss your comment
just out of curiosity do you believe, then, we should continue sending military equipment and money to Ukraine? Or that Iraq without western backing is in a similar position that Ukraine is now? I sincerely doubt Iraq ever had billions of dollars worth of military equipment, ever.
Honestly did you even read the comment you are replying to?
Because to me certainly doesnt seem like it
Yeah but what does that mean?
Iraq suffered from decade-long sanctions before it was invaded. It was already quite exhausted even before the sanctions after an eight-year war with Iran.
Ukraine has the support of NATO and some of the richest countries on Earth.
In 2022 ukraine was a country that had fought sense 2014, which has had significant chunck taken over by russia ,unlike iraq, ukraine didnt have the money from oil exporting
And ukraine wasnt given heavy weapons until well after the innitial attack was blunted, specificly because it was expected for ukraine to fall (also why it took soo long for ukraine to get western fighters, pilot training started during the war )
Just the blunting of the innitial attacks meant that russias goal of repeating what happened with crimea were a failure
who was ukraine fighting since 2014? they were doing ethnic cleansing in the donbas and luhansk. you’re talking as if they were already in a protracted war or some shit. after the maidan coup ukraine started receiving cia training and money. so if anything they should have been better prepared. yes, russia annexed crimea, but the extent of the conflict wasn’t big enough to weaken ukraine after a prolonged battle or some shit. in 2022 ukraine was way better positioned for a war than in 2014. what was once fringe fascist groups with guns became a full fledged white supremacist battalion with proper military training and financing, the ethnic cleansing in the oblasts were the military training they needed in order to achieve this, it made them stronger, not weaker.
on top of this, it’s more beneficial for russia to keep a protracted war with the us puppet state since this is what has been depleting us ammo and gear, which has been very beneficial for palestine, iran and yemen.
So first off
The main reason why i mentioned heavy weapons specificly despite ny innitial comment was because russia knows soviet equipment quite well
All of ukraines tanks, airdefence, fighters, attackers, counterbattery
Most of ukraines equipment was extremely well known by russia, what wasnt was in small numbers or lighter equipment
As per mister putin “Зачем? Когда мы вынуждены, хочу подчеркнуть, вынуждены были защищать русскоязычное население на Донбассе, вынуждены были отреагировать на стремления людей, живущих в Крыму, вернуться в состав Российской Федерации”
Quick translation “Why? When we were forced—I want to emphasize, forced—to protect the Russian-speaking population in Donbas, forced to respond to the aspirations of people living in Crimea to return to the Russian Federation.”
So an insurgancy (or freedom fighters, doesnt make much of a diffrence here) supported by the russian goverment
Dealing with an insurgency right after a coup
Im fairly certain that falls into the “some shit” category
More relevant to this is written later
CIA training? As in the central intelligence agency? They are an intel agency, not military advisors. And neither can do magic (like makeing soviet era leftover equipment to be anything else)
Money by itself doesnt do much, corruption is a thing and what money is the easiest to steal other then the one that officialy doesnt exist
For an example of how well cia training and money helps look at afganistan
Really?
Not even claiming its fighting an insurgency but specificly “ethnic cleansing”?
I call bs
Just how low of a bar that is was a big reason i mentioned ukraine in the first place
90s and early 00s were dealing with the soviet collapse for the eastern block
And then a horrific military situation and not exactly good economic situation, a coup, insurgancy and part of the country being invaded being placed ontop
PanArab@lemmy.ml didnt talk about wether iraq was in a better position a decade prior but rather things that effected their position at the start of the war
1.What does this have to do with the 2022 invasion? (And thus earlier comments)
2.This war has had significant effects on russia, at the very least loss of trust due to russias failure to defend its fellow CSTO member Armenia in 2023
3.Ukraine isnt useing much of ammunition for americas systems
America is with its inefficensy
4.Russia has done the exact oposite it has given europe and america the perfect testing ground to develop counters and counterparts to what hamas, the houthis and iran are all use
Let alone rather clearly demonstrating why such systems should be developed
If it wasnt for russia then america and all of the middle east would be starting from scratch and/or heavly reliant on guess who? Israel (as they are one of the few that have had to defend against semi regular significantly sized rocket barrages)
The phoenix program, what’s that?