Imo, the worst shit is the multiverse shit that makes it all meaningless. If they don’t like how they told the story, they will just make up a new version and say multiverse and you are the idiot for saying that it doesn’t make sense in another way because multiverse.
An repetitive story with no meaningful content for the franchise and no interest in consistency.
Even less effort than what? They just released a superman movie that didn’t have anything to do with previous superman movies. Isn’t that the easiest way to do a reboot? How is shoehorning in a multiverse easier?
Apparently, the new vision is to use the Multiverse explanation in order to bring all of the characters into one single timeline. So, apparently, Marvel has become quite aware of your issues, as the new studio head feels the same way. They’re doing what they can to address it, FWIW
Ah, I really liked the ultimates universe because it did make a whole new start that I could jump into, compared to the decades of comics earlier. Plus they were pretty free about killing some characters off. I loved cyclops deciding to
spoiler
facemelt magneto
because it felt like the characters had room to grow, fuck up, and change… like they could act in ways that didn’t need to preserve the status quo.
It was a wonderful experiment. And it showed what you can do with tight continuity control… But it was a bit too grimdark. Heroes need to be allowed to act like heroes, even when it’s hard.
The Ultimates universe felt like all the big names were slowly drifting towards evil.
I think my love for it came from the spiderman comic. Peter was great in the ultimate universe (and was the only comic I read through the entirety of). And yeah, grimdark is probably the right fit for it.
Actors age out of roles, so you should be changing the world with each movie…
Counterpoint: James Bond has been chugging along for sixty years. Some are better than others, but the basic outline is the same for almost every Bond movie, and it’s still a prestige franchise.
Except for a select few movies, there’s no continuity in the James Bond franchise.
Marvel wanted a sandbox to play in with established and maintained continuity, that’s what a cinematic universe is. The main problem is that they’re not following up on the continuity, or rather not letting the world actually change.
This is how I feel about comic book stories in general. Due to the nature of the medium, they have to constantly come up with new stories with the same set of characters to keep it fresh…eventually the well runs dry.
Seriously! It’s almost as if movies were never meant to be bottomless well of cash for wealthy investors, but rather some kind of “art” that takes time and special knowledge and genuine care from an “artist…”
Not like stories without a multiverse aspect have any more meaning. If someone has an interesting story to tell but it conflicts with some other aspect of a larger storyline (but works well with the rest), why not branch it off so it can stay internally consistent with its own story and not have to worry about what some other producers thought would be cool?
It’s the people who think you’re an idiot for not following every variation or understanding which ones go together who are the assholes. They are also the idiots themselves IMO for putting so much importance on knowledge of a set of fictional universes (and I say this as a geek who loves diving in to fictional universes, I just understand not all such dives are equal and my own deeper dives don’t make me better than anyone).
I don’t care about other people. And it is not about what another producer thought.
It is literally that I can hear that a character that I liked died but I honestly don’t care because 1. I don’t care about this shit and 2. I know the character will be back.
Let me contrast it with star wars because I think it becomes pretty obvious there.
The story becomes meaningless because I know that that the whole team that created the media knew that they don’t have to care. Disney decided to reboot star wars and they are doing great job in ruining something great by been unable to commit to a plan too. But for my enjoyment of star wars legends, I can easily ignore the current canon. When something happened in legends, you had a reasonable expectation that it will stay meaningful for the rest of the franchise. Now with the badly executed reboot, at least for rn, I can assume that the people who died in those movies are dead and will stay dead. The next movie will not have magically a dead character inside because multiverse. Movie A has an impact if movies B to Z. And yes, Lucas Art fucked the Legends story up at times but guess what… That is life.
“But in the last movie [redacted] comes back to life” yes quite a disappointing writing from Disney. It reads like marvel.
“But in the clone wars, [redacted] came back to life” yes and no, imo one of the mistakes while I like the character. But importantly the character technically was never shown dead and it was a plot twist and his “death” had actually a long term impact on the events of the story, making it meaningful for the story.
Both of those characters returned in the original versions before Disney threw out the EU stuff btw. And the first one was IMO done in a satisfying way (unlike the Disney version where he’s just kinda back).
But yeah, I can see some of your points, like having to keep track of more things and not necessarily being able to use information from previous movies to inform the current one.
I can’t stand the multiverse write off, even “what if” (which I personally loved at first) started to suffer with the whole strange being the bbeg arc.
Imo, the worst shit is the multiverse shit that makes it all meaningless. If they don’t like how they told the story, they will just make up a new version and say multiverse and you are the idiot for saying that it doesn’t make sense in another way because multiverse.
An repetitive story with no meaningful content for the franchise and no interest in consistency.
Multiverse is just the gg ez way to do a reboot with even less effort lol
Even less effort than what? They just released a superman movie that didn’t have anything to do with previous superman movies. Isn’t that the easiest way to do a reboot? How is shoehorning in a multiverse easier?
Apparently, the new vision is to use the Multiverse explanation in order to bring all of the characters into one single timeline. So, apparently, Marvel has become quite aware of your issues, as the new studio head feels the same way. They’re doing what they can to address it, FWIW
They’re doing a Battleworld, the comic event where Doom kidnaps Franklin Richards, and the molecule man, in order to temporarily erase the multiverse.
The end of that particular comic storyline justified the end of the Ultimates universe, while allowing Miles Morales to join the main marvel universe.
Nothing else changed. Because the first law of comics is that nothing ever changes. Not really.
Movies on the other hand, have a problem. Actors age out of roles, so you should be changing the world with each movie… Marvel isn’t doing that.
Ah, I really liked the ultimates universe because it did make a whole new start that I could jump into, compared to the decades of comics earlier. Plus they were pretty free about killing some characters off. I loved cyclops deciding to
spoiler
facemelt magneto
because it felt like the characters had room to grow, fuck up, and change… like they could act in ways that didn’t need to preserve the status quo.
It was a wonderful experiment. And it showed what you can do with tight continuity control… But it was a bit too grimdark. Heroes need to be allowed to act like heroes, even when it’s hard.
The Ultimates universe felt like all the big names were slowly drifting towards evil.
I think my love for it came from the spiderman comic. Peter was great in the ultimate universe (and was the only comic I read through the entirety of). And yeah, grimdark is probably the right fit for it.
Counterpoint: James Bond has been chugging along for sixty years. Some are better than others, but the basic outline is the same for almost every Bond movie, and it’s still a prestige franchise.
Except for a select few movies, there’s no continuity in the James Bond franchise.
Marvel wanted a sandbox to play in with established and maintained continuity, that’s what a cinematic universe is. The main problem is that they’re not following up on the continuity, or rather not letting the world actually change.
It’s an infinite Deux Ex Machina
This is how I feel about comic book stories in general. Due to the nature of the medium, they have to constantly come up with new stories with the same set of characters to keep it fresh…eventually the well runs dry.
That’s why there were so many characters. New characters were invented. New crossovers. New story arcs.
Seriously! It’s almost as if movies were never meant to be bottomless well of cash for wealthy investors, but rather some kind of “art” that takes time and special knowledge and genuine care from an “artist…”
Ah, there I go again.
For me it’s the juvenile plot and vapid dialogue. But sure, the retconning too.
Not like stories without a multiverse aspect have any more meaning. If someone has an interesting story to tell but it conflicts with some other aspect of a larger storyline (but works well with the rest), why not branch it off so it can stay internally consistent with its own story and not have to worry about what some other producers thought would be cool?
It’s the people who think you’re an idiot for not following every variation or understanding which ones go together who are the assholes. They are also the idiots themselves IMO for putting so much importance on knowledge of a set of fictional universes (and I say this as a geek who loves diving in to fictional universes, I just understand not all such dives are equal and my own deeper dives don’t make me better than anyone).
I don’t care about other people. And it is not about what another producer thought.
It is literally that I can hear that a character that I liked died but I honestly don’t care because 1. I don’t care about this shit and 2. I know the character will be back.
Let me contrast it with star wars because I think it becomes pretty obvious there.
The story becomes meaningless because I know that that the whole team that created the media knew that they don’t have to care. Disney decided to reboot star wars and they are doing great job in ruining something great by been unable to commit to a plan too. But for my enjoyment of star wars legends, I can easily ignore the current canon. When something happened in legends, you had a reasonable expectation that it will stay meaningful for the rest of the franchise. Now with the badly executed reboot, at least for rn, I can assume that the people who died in those movies are dead and will stay dead. The next movie will not have magically a dead character inside because multiverse. Movie A has an impact if movies B to Z. And yes, Lucas Art fucked the Legends story up at times but guess what… That is life.
“But in the last movie [redacted] comes back to life” yes quite a disappointing writing from Disney. It reads like marvel.
“But in the clone wars, [redacted] came back to life” yes and no, imo one of the mistakes while I like the character. But importantly the character technically was never shown dead and it was a plot twist and his “death” had actually a long term impact on the events of the story, making it meaningful for the story.
Both of those characters returned in the original versions before Disney threw out the EU stuff btw. And the first one was IMO done in a satisfying way (unlike the Disney version where he’s just kinda back).
But yeah, I can see some of your points, like having to keep track of more things and not necessarily being able to use information from previous movies to inform the current one.
I am aware of what you say but again, the first ones’ “death” was impactful for the story at least.
I can’t stand the multiverse write off, even “what if” (which I personally loved at first) started to suffer with the whole strange being the bbeg arc.
I was floored at just how many MCU movies in the past ten years I didn’t know about. No fuckin wonder people are getting burnt out on it.