I wasn’t very clear about the cooperation part. What I mean wasn’t that you have to be rational to cooperate. What I’m saying is that you have to be rational to plan out things that take dozens or hundreds of years and effectively utilize the cooperation of thousands of individuals who are all looking to solve the same problem.
You are using modern societal issues like inequality as evidence that we aren’t rational, but I dispute that strongly. Those problems used to be much, much worse, literally because the ruling class used a rational but evil plan to take care of themselves. Because of rational working class fighting back in a very organized and rational manner at a few different points in history, we made progress against them. We don’t have a 40 hour work week or OSHA in America because a bunch of emotional and angry public kept trying random things without a thought. We have those things from planning and hard work. Both are examples of being entirely rational.
I thought were were discussing rationality. It seems like you are saying humans are not rational because they are also irrational, and I’m saying that the only reason we exist as we do today is because of lots of rational plans and decisions. Ultimately we’re both rational and irrational as a species. The fact that it’s much harder to argue that we’re rational in this current moment in time is what vexes me. It’s definitely a change. Facts made a much bigger impact 20 years ago.
Just want to chime in with something; this is one of the most respectful, mutually considerate discussions I’ve seen on the internet in recent memory and y’all should be proud.
I wasn’t very clear about the cooperation part. What I mean wasn’t that you have to be rational to cooperate. What I’m saying is that you have to be rational to plan out things that take dozens or hundreds of years and effectively utilize the cooperation of thousands of individuals who are all looking to solve the same problem.
You are using modern societal issues like inequality as evidence that we aren’t rational, but I dispute that strongly. Those problems used to be much, much worse, literally because the ruling class used a rational but evil plan to take care of themselves. Because of rational working class fighting back in a very organized and rational manner at a few different points in history, we made progress against them. We don’t have a 40 hour work week or OSHA in America because a bunch of emotional and angry public kept trying random things without a thought. We have those things from planning and hard work. Both are examples of being entirely rational.
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I thought were were discussing rationality. It seems like you are saying humans are not rational because they are also irrational, and I’m saying that the only reason we exist as we do today is because of lots of rational plans and decisions. Ultimately we’re both rational and irrational as a species. The fact that it’s much harder to argue that we’re rational in this current moment in time is what vexes me. It’s definitely a change. Facts made a much bigger impact 20 years ago.
deleted by creator
You might be onto something here. I’m not sure though. I have a feeling it’s complicated and something we won’t fully understand any time soon.
Just want to chime in with something; this is one of the most respectful, mutually considerate discussions I’ve seen on the internet in recent memory and y’all should be proud.
Thanks. The user I was talking to here was quite reasonable and that made it easy for me to reciprocate.