Thx, I agree with what you say but I also do not agree (a tool is rarely the issue, it can be but often it’s the way we use it). Allow me to explain.

like i do not understand why we can only see black or white - screens are good or screens are bad.

I don’t think it is a B&W vision. For one thing they don’t want to ban screens. They want to go back to printed book in class. And kids still have a life outside of class.

They only decided screens were not the best medium to teach in class. That’s not seeing things in B&W, that is saying: we have an issue we did not have prior and, in all parameters we can observe, here are the ones that were changing when the issues arose.

If that was B&W, shouldn’t you agree that forcing screens in schools is also seeing things in B&W: no good teaching can be achieved without using high-tech.

a laptop with a touch screen and stylus - works as a notebook,

That remains to be demonstrated. They mimic it. They are not equals.

Not considering the complexity layer (no need to update, charge, turn on/off a paper or a print book, or to login & to launch an app to finally be able to use it), I can think of a few other things worth considering:

• a screen is a light emitting tech vs paper which is a light reflecting tech (how that emitted light impacts brain (or not) and increase fatigue.
• Next to the stylus, which is not the most widely used in class as far as I can understand, there is the keyboard. There are a few studies that points to a weaker memorization & understanding of whatever is being written down compared to longhand.
  Keyboard is so everywhere in schools that we are now in the process of not teaching kids handwriting anymore. Like, really?
• The (lack of) privacy. The constant monitoring and spying of kids while they’re reading/learning. Tracking that is not only from the school (which is already bad) but also by private corporations, most of them being US… which most of the world is not.
• The lack of standardization. I mean, I learned to write longhand in the early 70s and I’ve not needed to relearn it ever. Compare that to learning a new keyboard layout, a new UI in an app (hello, MS Word’s Ribbon), or a new version of the OS (that is being updated and changed for the sole purpose of making it more exciting to people), or even with changing OS completely.
• Longevity. That is obviously less of a concern for kids going to school, but it should be to their parents and all citizen financing public education, imho. I still use today a few fountain pens that I’ve been using since the 80s and, to make a parallel with keyboards, I also still use a typewriter that was my grandfather’s. That seems silly and meaningless but I don’t think it is: it contributes in shaping another relation to tech, one that sees tech as a mere tool among many others and not the ‘solve everything’ magical wand it is now considered. A different relation that is less focused on needing to own the newest latest tech but on how better use whatever we already have, and in doing so creating less waste and giving less power to the corporations owning said tech, too.
• Another that should never be a concern for any kid ever, but should worry adults around them: cost. Replacing a broken pen, a book, or some sheet of paper is cheap and instant. Not so much with a computer/tablet. Heck, not even a stylus is ‘pencil cheap’.

But I insist, I would like to read studies showing using a tablet/stylus is akin to using pen and paper in terms of memorizing/understanding whatever is being taught by the teacher. Closer to it, I would happily agree but similar? I would first like to read studies.

if you buy such a laptop, once every 5 year, and basically teach good usage habits, it would not be much more expensive than giving each child separate books, or notebooks.

I don’t understand that.

• I mean, a textbook is say 50€ (not considering bulk purchase) and the kids doesn’t even need to own that book, the school can purchase them and rent them to the kids for the time required to use that textbook, and then the kid gives it back and it would still be perfectly usable for the next kid to use (if not, parents of the previous kid should have to pay a fee for the damaging of that book that would still cost nothing like buying a new computer).
• Writing longhand cost nothing. 1 liter of school grade ink (Pelikan) will cost less than 40€. And one liter of ink is enough to write, what, a hundred thousand pages? Fifty thousand? In any case lot more than what any kid will write in the years they spend learning to write and read ;)
• Access to other books (novels) and other readings? They can be accessed for free thanks to public libraries (and school libraries). And if that is not an option they can all be found used (and new) for much cheaper than any textbook. And then, after use, they can be sold used and can be resold after that too (try that with ebooks). As a side a benefit, the better the condition of that used book the better its resale price, which may encourage kids/parents to take good care of what they use.

Not so much with a computer that costs a lot more to purchase, that needs much more regular updates and upgrades. And since there is no upgrade of anything allowed anymore, that often means to buy a new computer.

Computers are also a lot more fragile than books. I mean, I can and I do regularly read books that were printed in the 20th, 19th and 18th centuries. Obviously, they’re are not in mint conditions and they can be fragile due to old age (not systematically, though) but they still fully do their job even after centuries of use. Compared that to say, browsing the Web on a 15+ years old laptop? If it is less an issue when running Linux (which is not what most schools use, right?) it’s still a lackluster experience because of the lack of CPU power/ram… that are required in order to load not the actual content but the ever increasing shit ton of tracking scripts and ads (and purely visual effects scripts) on almost every single web pages there is. Scripts that are pushed forward by similar (if not the same, looking at you Google) corporations that sell the computers/tablets kids are required to be using in class (how convenient).
Also, the laptop/tablet battery will quickly age and won’t hold a charge anymore making that laptop/tablet a… desktop, tied to a power outlet.

I usually do not consume “social” media, so i do not feel my screen usage is bad.

I don’t either. But it is not about you, or I. It’s about us, on average. And what is that average us doing?

Also, even though many of us are not consuming social media turds, I cannot not notice the increasing numbers of young people that are barely able to read (or a lot less easily, and always shorter and simpler texts), and how they are not even able to write properly anymore. I’m not referring to them making spelling mistakes, that’s not an issue, I’m referring to their ability to construct meaningful sentences.

How is one expected to be able to hear and to express nuanced thoughts and ideas if they can’t even read and write proper sentences? Once again, spelling mistake are a non-issue for the most part, the lack of grammar is.

I’m not saying kids should be taught Latin and Greek in class, like we used to (I would like to, even though I hated it with all my heart back then), but I think they should at the very least be properly taught to read and to write in their native language (that would be French, for me, so pardon my poor English) and in at least one other foreign language.

Imho, that failing at reading and writing, and at understanding and expressing ideas, is what those people noticed too. And that’s what they’re trying to fight against.

Which is great news we should all support even if there is no certainty they’re doing it the right way. Maybe future will tell us the screen (and the keyboard) were not the issue, and that handwriting, using pen and paper, was not the best solution either? I don’t known.

What I do know is that there is real issue, quickly growing and intensely spreading. And that it’s hard to not notice that learning/teaching has collapsed almost everywhere where teaching/learning has become ‘digital’ and at the same time where screens have become so prevalent. And not just in the class, btw: screens are everywhere. So, I insist: it is only about changing kid’s habits in school. Those kids will still have more than enough opportunities to access screens everywhere else.

To be completely honest with you, I’m not sure forcing books in schools will solve the whole issue either: I think it will help a lot kids get a better education but the main issue, to me, is that those kids are observing adults around them and, quite normally, they’re copying them.

And what do they copy us doing? Us not using books.

They see adults wasting their lives on screens (be it TV, streaming, social media, YT or TikTok, playing games, and so on). None of that being an issue in itself, the fact this mostly is only that becomes the issue.

A (silly?) example?

Most of us have probably watched the ‘Lord of the Rings’, right? Some more than once, too? Now, how many of us have read the books? And and realized how not the same and a lot less… nuanced and articulated Jackson’s adaptation is compared to Tolkien’s masterpiece (and I say that as someone who is not even a fan of Tolkien, btw)?

Kids will do what they see adults around do. Be it to constantly hate on people that are different to them (or don’t share their world view), or to become addicted to their screens.

More or less 0. Just like I don’t use my phone much, I seldom use any data. I don’t watch/listen to content on my phone, I don’t take much photos. I don’t even check my emails.

I just checked on their website, for January I’m sitting at an impressive 360 megs (130 giga available monthly) but this month is a massive increase in my usual data consumption as I’ve taken a lot more pictures than I use to (we’re visiting new apartments).

I pay 12€/m each for both my spouse and mine (each with a 130g plan that we never use, it’s the smallest plan we could get), plus 2€/m for a third line that has no data plan at all (that we use as a ‘trash/publicly shared number’ we almost never answer). This cheap plan could suit us if it wasn’t that limited when moving abroad (the reason why I pay for those 130g plans we don’t use is they don’t have those limits) and if it had some data associated to it for those rare times when we need it, like it just happened this month. Those plans are all without engagement (and we provide our own phones)

Here in France, customers need to regularly check their invoice to make sure the operator has not silently activated a new ‘feature’ free ‘for the first month’ that automatically switch to the paid tier the following month. Without the customer asking anything. It happens very often. And it can quickly ad up.

As much as needed for the story to exist? I mean, We’re not talking watching porn here, we’re talking watching a movie or a series, aka a story. Sex is a legit part of many stories but outside of porn I don’t think it’s that often required.

So, if there is no story or if the main selling point of the series is to show sex scenes or play with sex allusions, I will quit watching it very fast, no matter how soft/hard gay/straight/fluid/whatever the sex scenes in it can be. I don’t give a, you guessed it, fuck ;)

An apple among many other fruits, some salad with a light dressing.
I may also hunt for bare carrots, Bugs Bunny like ;)

A slice of handmade bread I just cut, too. Just the bread, it tastes so good.

Some bot/troll seems to b back from the dead? One more blocked.

Does anyone else feel this way? Have you found ways to reconnect with technology?

I’ve been stepping away slowly for a few years now. Back to low-tech and analog… and back to privacy/ownership/control. I don’t plan on giving up on tech at all, I just put it back at its place which is one tool in my toolbox that contains many more. One tool that, I quickly realized, was not even the most essential (pen and paper would be, for me).

like entertainment-wise…

I think in Iranian case entertainment may not be their main concern at the moment.

But as far as I’ concerned most of my ‘leisure’ are offline/analog: reading (print books, magazines & newspapers), sketching, listening to music (CD, downloaded files) and watching DVD. Most of my other activities are offline too, I even write longhand before I even consider powering on a computer for the final edits/revisions.

The one game I regularly play is chess and I prefer playing it offline and against people IRL if I have the option. I willplay against a chess engine on occasions, but I don’t need to play it online. Heck, I even carry an old 1988 pocket computer chessboard. The onboard engine is weaker than weak compared to even, the worst modern chess engine but why should I care? I mean, I’m no Magnus Karlsen or Kasparov ;)

I feel like a drug addict lol…

I can’t tell if you are addicted but what I can tell is that, a few years ago, upon realizing how heavily I was relying on online services and tech I decided it was essential to move back offline (and to analog/low-tech) as much of my activities as I was able to, and at the very least to not GAFAM-controled services and tools. That was a huge factor in me moving back to low-tech, even more so when combined with my growing concern with the many attempts that were and are still made to spread that erosion of our user rights toward our citizen rights (like ending any right to encryption and privacy, for example). If I can’t trust tech, I will do my best to not rely on it and to not use it.

Thx a lot for the detailed explanation.

a nice map of where you went

I can’t understand how people would be… that careless and be willing to publicly share such a risky type of data, though. Well, exactly like you mentioned: we know some weirdos could easily abuse that kind of information to harm those users.

Just so you know: we have not owned a tv since 2000. And, as much as possible, we eat healthy food. I mean, no industrially processed (and over packaged) junk/industrial fast or not fast food. Even our bread is handmade (not by us, we would not have enough room, but by the small local bakery that makes everything the good old way) ;)

I considered a smaller dog but since we’re both not in the best health… I just can’t. At least, I can regularly see dogs at the park, and sometimes I will pet them.

I can easily imagine that and I would love to be able to say I am too :)

Most of my life, I lived with one dog or more… When my mast dog passed away, some 20 years ago, we moved in this big city, in a very small flat… a dog is not even a realistic option here. Even less so that my spouse are getting old and I would worry what will happen to our dog after we pass.

Sure, not all communities are the same, that’s fine. There are plenty of communities I’m not interested or I see I won’t fit in. There are others I don’t have that impression.

. I like it a lot here but I feel like I need to engage a bit myself to create the great discussions I used to simply observe on Reddit.

+1

How to create great discussions on Lemmy?

I can’t tell about ‘great’ save that it has a lot to do with both the topic discussed and the people involved, but I consider being honest combined with 1) not being afraid (ie, no self-censoring) and 2) not trying to create polemics (throwing random shit knowing at least one will trigger some emotional reactions) as an excellent starting point to a potentially interesting discussion.

(Yesterday, I was reading (not commenting) a thread on some public transportation discussion. It was very interesting.)

Next to that, and equally important imho: don’t try to push new content for the sake of adding content. No matter how clumsy or simple, I prefer posts that the OP finds genuinely worth sharing or discussing with others. I don’t need to be entertained with constant new content. Like with eating, I prefer quality over quantity ;)

Can I reply after a day or two if I am too busy to reply immediatly?

Sure. Some like me won’t mind (I do that too) while others won’t like it, and some can’t even be bothered to click a discussion that is more than a day old. That’s fine. It’s their right to prefer freshness but they also don’t own Lemmy and they don’t get to decide how we should all use it.
Lemmy is ours to make it exactly what we want it to be. So, make if yours by answering/participating at your own pace :)

You mean, like publicly sharing one’s stats and achievements?

I see. For me it has become something I need to do. I will just feel like shit the day I can’t ;)

I use the clock and a mix of various destinations to make sure I will walk enough. For that I just need a good old wrist watch for that, without any tracking included.

Walking also helped me lose quite some extra-weight, so if I may say so myself: congrats, that’s great :)

This may be a silly question but what is the interest of this type of apps for an average user? I mean, I do daily walks as my main physical activity and never felt any need to use an app to track/log my activities. So, I’m just curious to know what is the incentive to download an use such an app?

Maybe but its also super off putting to people looking on from the outside and wju do we need 500 flavours of Debian based distros when interested developers perhaps would be better tasked working om a few projects to inwprove things

maybe those newbies would not have a single ‘linux’ to look at at if that was not for that fragmentation that seem to be so much of an issue…

The people working for free to make Linux what it is are doing it on the simple idea they have been promised: their freedom (and right) to make Linux what they want Linux to be. Not to make it what some group of users or some manager want them to make it.

It’s many flavours, like you called it, is in the Linux DNA like freedom is ;)

Edit: rephrasing (it’s early around here, not slept much ;)

What you describe as “not feeling terrible” is what I would describe as “empathy”, aka what makes us humans. Our ability to feel emotions regarding what is not happening to us but to someone else.

There is no need to go seek trauma-like events to experiment empathy, no need to witness a war, a child suffering or something deeply unfair. It’s the same empathy that also makes us able to cry real tears when watching/reading a love story, and sincerely worry about what’s happening to a fictional character that is, by definition, not even a real person. That is the same empathy that makes us feel good when witnessing someone happy in front of us, even a perfect stranger (like this sweet couple sitting in front of me in the bus, yesterday), or feel happy when we see kids playing around on the street or in a park. The same empathy that makes us feel bad when we see those same people not being happy. And it’s the same empathy that makes feel like helping some random strangers that obviously needs help. To care about others, that’s what make us human beings.

So, would I take pills to stop being a human in order to not feel bad? No. At the very least because I know I would also not be able anymore to feel happy, as I would not be able to feel much anymore, if anything.

if everyone stopped caring, how would the world look like?

robot like. De-humanized. A billionaire’s dream I imagine. Even more so that they would make us pay for having access to those magical (?) pills.

Personal remark:

Ignoring real trauma here, just considering our emotional reactions to events happening around us. Imho, the real issue with bad/sad feelings is not in us feeling bad. The issue lies in not being educated to accept and to handle those kind of feelings as a legit part of ourselves. Exactly like so many of us now seem to have become incapable to handle any disagreement or contradictory fact, btw. It’s most likely the same issue.

No pill ever will replace education, or its absence.

Not knowing something does not mean one is dumb, refusing to learn about it would be a safer indicator. How did she react when you explained her Vietnam was still a country and has been so for quite some time?

Also, wtop worrying her being 10/10 (or 0/10) or being the reincarnation of Einstein or… not Einstein, maybe? Was she an interesting person, you had a great time with, or not? That would be the only reason to date/not date someone, in my book… But I’m old and I don’t date.

if you don’t use the app but the good old web browser on a PC/Mac:

1. Click on the cog to get to the Settings.
2. Click See all Settings.
3. Click the General tab.
4. Ctrl/Cmd-F to find the ‘Smart features’ and uncheck it. You may want to check in “Manage Google Workspace smart features” if everything is turned off.