TimmyDeanSausage

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In the fictional world republicans have crafted for you with their propaganda, sure.

Riveting. I’m on the edge of my seat here with these revolutionary new ideas.

So first step is winning, right? As I said, there’s different ways to win, including lying or telling the truth. Has nothing to do with being “cool” or not.

You’re shifting previous statements to work around my arguments instead of directly refutting them. You said this, within the context of unconditionally supporting the people doing it. What am I supposed to take from that other than “the important thing is winning at all costs”? Are you seriously trying to make the argument that you can win by lying, like that’s some sort of new information to anyone in the world anywhere? If so, forgive me for being confused by the sheer stupidity of the argument.

No, I’m arguing with an un-serious person who shifts the goal posts and changes the topic instead of arguing in good faith. I was going to copy and paste a section of you saying lying and propaganda are valid winning strategies, but you seem to be having a hard time keeping up with the conversation, and I’m not interested in debating with disingenuous people.

I don’t think winning elections justifies an entire propaganda network existing for the sole purpose of manipulating the masses into being the foot soldiers in a class war against themselves. I also don’t think the people who would lie and manipulate like that could possibly be the same people that would dismantle the current billionaire-centric economic structure. I think, if you’re a right winger in current US politics, you’re extremely ignorant, short-sighted, or intentionally invested in transferring wealth from the poor to the super wealthy. The right is ultra neo-liberalism mixed with overt oligarchy. The left is neo-liberalism lite mixed with subtle oligarchy, but heavily fractured between that group and a different group that is actually constantly trying to change things for the better. If you’re paying attention, there’s a clearly better choice for working class Americans. But people like you would rather argue right wing points into the ground (they never hold up to logic or real data) until you can’t argue them anymore, then shift to “well at least our evil behavior brings us wins!”. You’re not an American.

Yes, that is the current paradigm we live in. I would argue that it’s this way because of how effective the right wing propaganda machine has been over the last 4.5 decades.

So, you’re saying lies and propaganda are cool as long as your team keeps winning?

It’s ironic that you’re lecturing “democrats” on worshipping the status quo while parroting the current right wing status quo propaganda. If you ignore what the media says, and instead look at actual votes (congress.gov) or watch congressional sessions on cspan, it should be very clear that a good amount of democrats tend to be the ones trying to govern, while the right wingers are constantly sabotaging everything they do in the name of corporate profit, then blaming dem’s for the fallout from whatever shitty thing the right wingers did instead of what the dem’s wanted.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched dems lay out thoroughly researched, thoughtful plans on policy, or thoroughly explain how the policies the far-right implemented are screwing working-class Americans, only to have some right winger passionately “rebut” their arguments with complete nonsense, get their 5 second media clips, then sit down and stare at their phones not paying attention until it’s their time to talk again.

Everything they tell you dem’s are doing, they’re the ones doing it. And now they’re telling you that what I’m saying is what OUR propaganda is telling us. It’s all bullshit. I’ve been watching the behind the scenes stuff for almost 10 years. It’s been this way the entire time. And btw, I started doing this because I used to consider myself a libertarian until I started noticing the lies. Particularly how the party of “individual freedom” fought so hard against same sex marriage (a freedom heteros have, that every INDIVIDUAL of legal age should have). I bought completely into the propaganda and didn’t realize how far I was from understanding what was actually going on until I really started questioning everything. I hope you can muster the intellectual honesty to question things in a similar way.

I think that’s likely all it was. But, I also think it’s a little too convenient that Trump is done with Elon now that the dirty work has been done to line up manufactured support for their billionaire tax break bill. At risk of getting a little conspiratorial, it’s possible Trumps team actually planned to use Elon to do all the worst damage so they could cut him loose, after the fact, then blame him for the worst of the fallout.

Bigger than that, I think Musk finally realized that Trump only holds up his end of deals as long as it’s advantageous for him. The rest of us have known that for as long as we’ve known Trump, but hey, being a totally legit super genius has its downsides, right? Anyways, Trump promised him a buffet of corruption, then got cold feet when he saw musks appetite. Even more than that, they’re two self-appointed kings of their own worlds, both with the emotional intelligence/maturity of a very traumatized teenager. With their levels of obvious insecurity, their arrangement was never going to work. I’m just glad their break up is as juicy as I thought it would be. :)