Rapist, fascist, racist, insurrectionist, pedophile, felon, conman, serial liar… Why sell him short?
All that stuff was well known BEFORE the election. That’s why I don’t have any respect for those who now claim they “made a mistake”.
The leopards weren’t supposed to eat THEIR face!
They were perfectly okay with all those things as long as it didn’t hurt them. Hell they celebrated most of it.
These same people claiming they made a mistake will absolutely support the next asshole that “speaks to them.” They all want a white Christian nation and will support whomever they think will give them that.
I think most of them would even vote for him again given the opportunity.
that guy that said he’d forgive the President if he raped his daughters… i was like wtf. He should ha e his kids taken off him.
Indeed.
These aren’t just dumb people. They are actual traitors to our nation and everything it stands for.
The delusion that this isn’t what the US has always stood for. The state is not your friend. This nation is and always has been the enemy of the working class.
Because you’re more likely to convince someone with a single emotionally-charged fact than a bulleted list.
We’ve tried convincing these people. It doesn’t work. They’re lost.
Then all is lost! But still a good day to learn a little human nature.
The All Is Lost Moment! But still a good day to learn a little film theory
Yeah. It fucking sucks.
Traitor is the bigger one for me.
He’s betrayed everything this country, that office, and our people stand for.
No he didn’t. He is the hypercharged image of Corporate America, the future we’ve been building towards for the last fifty years. Capital made carnal. If it disgusts you, well, it should.
no he didn’t he is what the country stands for, I’ve got mine, fuck you all. It’s why billionaires are revered as well.
he still has has 38%-40% support
Trump is literally the personification of American culture.
Nah, people.dont research. None of that was known. They know only what fox news lies about. And anything opposing those views are just evil Democrats smearing him and lying because theres no proof!
None of that was known.
That’s what the intellectually lazy and liars say, anyway. Because all of that was absolutely known by anyone who paid a modicum of attention to sources that weren’t 100% regime aligned.
I’m sorry, I was being the voice of the conservative hicks living in falling down shacks with trump signs all over, not an educated human. I think people mistook my comment to be my actual thoughts 😅
I know these degenerates in real life, you cannot use facts with them. They won’t ever believe it if it goes against Dear Leader, to them anything that does is a democrat scam.
These are people who really believe They (democrats/Soros) bussed in immigrants and set out pallets of bricks for riots in Minneapolis. Unrefutably they believe that as fact. 🙄
Cause they didn’t see in the four years he already had that he was a piece of shit?
No. They are idiots and only folow fox news, all else is just a smear campaign. These people are plain dumb and there is no fixing them.
Yeah, it’s all fake news unless it’s faux news
Yup. Ignorance isn’t an excuse. Especially 10 years of it.
It hurt most when my mother told me that she voted for him. Most of my family did but I didnt know that at the time.
They are bad people tho 🤷🏻
“Look, my family aren’t bad people. All they did was turn their heads when the Nazis came door to door looking for people. It’s not like they PERSONALLY did any of that. They just wanted the economy working again.”
I don’t think they are necessarily bad, maybd ignorant and selfish for not considering the bad consequences on other’s lives
Sorry to say this, but your family voted for trump knowing who he is and what he would do to people. They are not good people. Ignorant and selfish people aren’t generally good people.
And it hurts to hear it, but you need to acknowledge the facts of reality. I’ve gone through this recently with my fuckhead uncle, and it still hurts a bit when the stupid fuck tries to get me to call him, but I keep telling him no because he won’t change who he is and I want nothing to do with people like that. And it’s ok to acknowledge that your family aren’t good people, but I wont pretend it’s easy to do. You can keep them in your life if you have the energy to try to change them, but know that you can’t change someone who doesn’t want to change.
But it is not easy to be a good person when you’re surrounded by media that try to make everything look ok, even if it isn’t. I’m not trying to justify every person who voted for Trump and I don’t think all of them are bad people, but they’re stupid tho.
But it is not easy to be a good person when you’re surrounded by media that try to make everything look ok, even if it isn’t.
I never said it was easy. But as someone who grew up constantly having fox news and limbaugh shoved down my throat for 10-15 years, I know first had just how hard it is, and that it can be done if you want to do it.
I’m not trying to justify every person who voted for Trump and I don’t think all of them are bad people
We can agree to disagree on this point. Even from alt-right sources, they knew he was going to do shit like deport anyone and everyone he could, and would embolden the police to be even more over the top than they already were. The problem is these people see shit like that as a good thing, which is why they are bad people.
I personally don’t care why someone voted for trump, the individual reasons are unimportant when they knew the kinds of horrors he would unleash on us. That’s why they are bad people. They knowingly made this choice, and from my interactions with magats around me, they’re only upset that the leopards are eating the wrong faces but would probably still vote for him again if they could (and anyone who tells you otherwise is most likely lying, just like after 2020).
Good point. Why watching fox news while you were growing up didn’t make a maga person tho?
Because I managed to internalize the Catholic morals I was raised with instead of just paying them lip service. Going to university and getting out from under that mental blanket helped a lot.
Also, the whole gamergate controversy snapped me out of whatever conservative mentalities I had when I saw the type of person I was becoming.
But it is not easy to be a good person when you’re surrounded by media that try to make everything look ok
Not easy, no. But absolutely possible. There were absolutely Germans in Nazi Germany that didn’t just go along with what was happening. A lot of them fled the country. A lot of them helped the resistance in any way they could.
Turning your brain off and giving in to mass delusion is lazy and wrong.
Nah. Being ignorant and selfish is deffo bad.
Don’t pretend. Stop trying to not rock the boat. The kindest thing you can do for your loved ones is to help them find their way out of the darkness, you can’t do that if you won’t acknowledge reality, to their face.
dude they are bad people, think of the wives of the guards at Auswitz, looking after hearth and home, That’s your sister.
Hey friend, you’re not alone in that pain. But please don’t let the hurt and anger blind you. We don’t talk about weasels like that. Comparing them to Trump like that is unreasonably cruel to weasels.
Their actions aren’t your fault, don’t beat yourself up about it.
Dont want to be reminded that they voted for trump twice.
3 times probably, and looking forward to the 4th one already.
My family aren’t bad people
They are if they still support him. Can’t ride the fence on this one. It’s gone too far. Ignorant people can also be bad people.
pa suburbs are essentially the south don’t feel bad we’re close enough to nyc should’ve known better (at least philly, pittsburg is pretty much ohio)
Hell no.
This should’ve been normalized in 2016. Probably long before that even.
That’s around when I started cutting people out who couldn’t see reason. Haven’t seen some people for a decade. They thought it was politics, I pointed out they wouldnt leave their daughter alone with him, maybe not vote for a shitty human being rapist? Cut a lot of ties unfortunately. They thought he was going to save the world LMAO.
Found the last message I sent last person I cut from my life. Can’t find one from 2016 atm.
I’m unblocking your number to send this final message.
I don’t associate with Trump supporters, FULL STOP. You’re free to believe what you want, I’m free to walk away. I set this boundary in 2018 and began enforcing it in 2021 after the Jan 6th Insurrection. I want absolutely nothing to do with this administration.
We started talking about car repair because you seemed like a normal, everyday guy. Learning that you’re a proud Trump supporter sucks because I did enjoy helping and hanging out with you. But your views are the completely opposite of mine if you think America is being “saved” by Trump. Your idea of “saving” is very strange.
Trump is a 34x convicted felon (for fraud no less), convicted rapist, accused by dozens of women of sexual assault, who raped his previous wife, hung out with pedophile Epstein (why aren’t the Epstein files released? What is Bondi hiding?) regularly on the Lolita Express, talks about wanting to fuck his daughter, selling Trump meme coins, peddling products out of the Oval Office, Tesla commercials on the White House lawn, selling “gold card” citizenships for $50k (you can come to America as an immigrant, as long as you have/bring money), dodged the draft yet talks trash about armed services and veterans, defends the nazi hate group the proud boys, calls voters “stupid”, threatening to take away citizenships of anyone he doesn’t like or criticizes the government (literally what the nazis did, revoke the citizenship of Germans who opposed them)… I could go on, but it’s wasted energy.
Logic and reasoning didn’t get you into your current beliefs, login and reason won’t get you out.
Every accusation by a republican is a confession.
People who look up to Trump or think their ideals are the same, are NOT people I want to be around. This isn’t a political stance, we can debate all day on whether students should get free food at school, or that justice doesn’t exist in the eyes of the law, only punishment, etc. This is a moral issue. I will not be part of this fascist regime that American has become with all these concentration camps and deportations for people coming here for a better life, fighting with our neighbors over tariffs. Everyday it’s a new stack of lies and distractions from the previous day, inundated with bullshit so you can’t even respond before 27 new issues are hitting headlines.
I will not provide links, if you want to check it, you can google. Unless you discover it on your own, you won’t check my links so it’s a waste of my time. I’ve been through this, you aren’t the first person to be removed from my life over Trump support and won’t be the last.
This is a line I draw. Maybe one day you’ll see that this is a hate cult, it’s all part of the grift to help the millionaire an billionaire class, but I won’t be around to care.
This was excellent. Sorry your friend was an idiot. There is the “bet he would be upset if he could read” joke somewhere but I am so tired of that being true.
Oh, he replied quickly, didn’t read it at all, told me he wasn’t going to read my “rhetoric”. Cool, enjoy being white trash loser.
You’re a real 1.
“Hell no,” is a weird response. Just because you should have done something in the past doesn’t mean you can’t start now. It should be normalized every year.
Electing a useful stooge to usher in a new age of American fascism is probably something this nation will never fully be able to come to terms with, and may not survive. It’s incredibly disappointing and disheartening that we have to depend on the shock value of outrageous sex crimes just to get the attention of voters.
In addition to the normalization of rape culture, here are some other horrible things that are already happening, and continue to get worse as we continue down this path:
- Techno-fascist police state
- Concentration camps
- Domestic military operations
- Open kleptocracy
- Federalized “elections”
- Illegal and continuous wars at executive whim
- Out-of-control, self-sustaining, irreversible global climate change
- Increased risk of nuclear conflict
I think I prefer, “You enthusiastically voted for an obviously fascist lunatic.” But hey, whatever gets butts in the booths while we still can.
the silver lining of being a very queer trans person is no one who voted for him wants to hang out with me anyway, so i dont end up running into them in my social circles. they might want to fuck me though, which is weird dichotomy…
If it helps, a lot of them would also kill you on the spot were it came to light they were having sex with you. Then use the gay panic defense in court.
Stay safe please!They might want to get fucked by you which is a slightly weirder, given their outward expressions
TWICE. They voted for him TWICE.
Even worse, they voted for him THREE TIMES. Only two of those got him into office though.
As a leftist, I dislike this sentiment. We should not normalize isolating folks on the far right.
Of course, do what you want with your friend groups. Kick someone out if you don’t like hanging with them. But if you can swing it, there are a lot of cases where it can be really good thing to expose conservative folks to leftist worldviews in a friendly setting.
I feel including conservative folks has a much more direct and convincing theory of change than excluding them does.
(Again, it is cool if you don’t want to do that.)
I agree with the sentiment and have practiced this for years – it was pounded into me during my education-- but have not found any balance in it. The evils stay evil and I feel like they thrive on my making room for them. Its very odd that some otherwise sane and caring people can have these parts of their personalities that are completely distinct from the rest of how they think, and it doesn’t make any sense to me personally. Usually the biggest hurdle is around Israel support. So we stay friends, but I think they are evil shits and they think I’m a peacenik moron who is naive out of touch with the real world (I think).
I’m not certain, but I think at its core is racism and lack of respect for others, while wishing them well at the same time. So they want to tell themselves they are good people, but hate on certain ethnic groups. Kind of a “I’m going to shoot you in the head but I feel bad about it” sort of thing. Ironically they dont know a single thing about islam, and universally dont know any muslims.
They tend to be middle class too-- truly middle, and well above average intelligence, mostly with career success. They dont worry about money, really ever. Victims of propoganda? I still dont know.
Kind of a “I’m going to shoot you in the head but I feel bad about it” sort of thing.
Not sure if you were making a reference, but one of Israel’s most distinctive propaganda tactics is literally called Shooting And Crying. Basically, get your former IDF soldiers to act all sad about the atrocities they had to commit, so the public focus stays on sympathy instead of the war crimes and genocides they committed. Nobody feels good about kicking a crying person while they’re down, so it’s a way to shunt blame and avoid being held accountable for your own actions.
Basically, divert the blame onto the shadowy and faceless “they”. They ordered me to do bad things. They put me in situations where I was forced to make impossible choices. They forced me to struggle to survive. They are the reason I had to do all of those awful things. Because “they” is a faceless amorphous entity that can’t be held accountable and can’t defend itself against allegations. Meaning “they” is easy to shift blame onto as long as I remain a sympathetic victim in the public’s mind. If I keep crying, I never actually have to apologize for my war crimes, because they should be the ones apologizing instead.
Wasnt aware of that. Horrifying but right on brand for them.
I’ve been doing a little bit of this with someone I work with. The thing that really got her attention was me pointing out I can’t make a gallon of gas by myself, buy I can make a kilowatt of electricity with stuff I have lying around my house/yard. And that equipment will make me more kilowatts, for free.
The thing that really got her attention was me pointing out I can’t make a gallon of gas by myself, buy I can make a kilowatt of electricity with stuff I have lying around my house/yard.
Yeah, the Technology Connections video on solar panels vs ethanol production (growing corn to turn into ethanol to add to gasoline) was honestly a great tool for convincing people who simply never bothered to think critically about it. I don’t even need to get them to watch the video, I simply paraphrase some of the arguments he makes.
Alec is a treasure. I have some moderately terrifiying switches and I need to figure out a way to send them to him, even if he didn’t do a video he would probably like them.
I can’t make a gallon of gas myself
Come to my house and watch me compress algae and phytoplankton and turn it into fossil fuels over millions of years.
This is the way to go.
If they don’t have left wing friends they would only have right wing friends, and surely they won’t ever change their mind in that environment.
To be real that attitude is a little abusive, “be like I want or I left you!” kind of deal. Preying on vulnerable people that would change themselves just out of fear of being alone. I don’t want that. I want convince people of my views because they see how good they are, not because I threatened them.
As a leftist, I’m on board with this sentiment. But as an ex-right-winger, I know this would exclude me from my current community. We should allow space for growth and reconciliation, but if you still support Trump and the Republicans at this point, fuck you.
I agree, but if you voted for him the last election it becomes harder for me. The first one, ya you wanted to stick it to status quo. I get it, not support it. Hillary did suck. The second time it is hard but at least Biden one. But after all the shit, lies, rape, epstein, COVID, fraud, impeachments, obvious corruption…and still support him. That’s tough. It is like a Nazi in 1946. Redemption at that point will be hard earned only.
We should allow space for growth and reconciliation
Growth. Something anyone that’s still a Trump supporter, or in my opinion still were during the 2024 election, are incapable of. He was already a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist during the 2024 election. Anyone that voted for him in that election is a trashcan garbage piece of trash.
Reconciliation. Something anyone still supporting him is in no way interested in.
You can’t reach people that don’t want to be reached. And at this point they don’t deserve the effort.
Yup.
I forget where I learned this, but about 30% of Germans supported hitler until his cold blooded killing of hitler.
There are people who cannot be reached, and should be shunned by society.
Those numbers were still that high even well into the 1950s. Even after Germany had been invaded, conquered, and literally divided in two, even after millions of German deaths. A good portion of the German population never gave up on Hitler.
I don’t disagree.
If you are voting to take away my basic rights and safety we can’t be friends. That includes 100% of Trump voters, 90% of Republicans and about 30% of Democrats. If you include less basic rights that unfortunately includes another 30-60% of Democrats or so but hierarchy of needs and all that.
Yeah, especially on my husband’s side, we’ve had to cut contact with some extended family. I’m trans, and we’re not even out about my past to these family members on his side of the family. I met my husband after transition. They’re Southern Baptist deep south folk, and while they’re quite friendly when we meet them, they also don’t know about my trans status.
My natural inclination is to not rock the boat in such matters. I didn’t suggest we cut off contact; I didn’t want to be responsible for cutting my husband off from his extended family. I was willing to overlook it to maintain the peace, especially as we see them very infrequently.
But then my husband told me his perspective, and it chilled me to my bones. There was no question on his part. When discussing it, he simply said:
“They voted to kill my wife.”
Australian here who was 100% convinced that Trump ran as a joke to get Hillary elected in 2016.
Now here knowing that Trump is an insane old man who should be in a retirement home and not running a country.
But I don’t care for the fact that most of American politicians are supporting the terrorist state of Israel. Trump is an insane old man but Israel is horrific. Phone bombs, burning children alive, pumping US citizens tax dollars (that was given to them) into lazy American politicians.
Every day I waited for them to announce it was a big joke when he decided to run for president. Now our country is the joke.
Seriously up until I got the message that Trump had become president and Hillary had lost I was 100% convinced he was running as a joke and doing everything he could to help Hillary.
The next time he became president I am 150% convinced that Elon musk rigged the election.
I never liked Hillary Clinton but Kamala Harris is brilliant.
I’m not an American, neither is Elon and I have hated Elon Musk since back when he was a beloved left wing hero… I hated Elon Musk from the moment I saw him and I’ll hate him until the day I die.
I hate lots of others, Disney, Amazon, Adobe, Microsoft CEOs.
Just don’t get me started on how much I think I should be the emperor of earth.
You got my vote. Can’t do any worse right?
If you promise to dismantle Adobe you will have secured another vote xD
Kamala is the same as Hillary. Both are Imperialist scum. They aren’t as bad as Republican fascists but they aren’t exactly better.
Fair enough, I don’t want to start anything here. I’m Australian I only know about all of Hillary Clintons crimes.
Kamala seems like a highly intelligent woman who just wanted the best for your country, as far as I can tell she would have made your lives better.
But Elon hacked the election and Trump won… Now instead of democratic fake socialism you have people in the streets shooting brown people…
I’m 100% a centrist… But I mean that I think morons crying about the little mermaid being black are just as useless as people crying about over-sexualized big breasted women in video games.
Both sides are equally wrong and pointless, just don’t buy the product and move on with your lives.
Being a centrist I’m 100% against Nazis (and here’s why I got banned on Reddit)… Nazis only exist to be target practice… What I’m saying is you Americans should be following in our grandparents/great grandparents footsteps and executing Nazis where they stand.
Israel Army are also Nazis and deserves the same treatment(There’s your centrism (͡•_ ͡• ) )
You were kinda correct. Trump becoming the big Republican nominee was part of the Pied Piper strategy of the establishment Democrat party. The Hillary Clinton campaign intentionally uplifted radical conservative candidates in an effort to make winning elections easier. The logic was if the Conservative party looks crazy, the Democratic party can run on simply pointing out that craziness without needing to actually have specific policies or positions. The establishment Democrats loved the idea of doing less work, so they eagerly adopted the strategy and focused on crushing their own left flank candidate Bernie Sanders.
The Clinton campaign and the DNC had done a bunch of oppositional research on Donald Trump in preparation, but chose to sit on it, not wanting to tank Trump’s chances of becoming the nominee. They focused instead on Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio.
This is why the US has a bunch of feckless Democrats who never seem to run for anything, only against Republicans. They keep running this same, “vote for me or you’ll get the crazy man” strategy, even though they keep losing with it.
Yeah I read a lot about what happened to Bernie Sanders, absolutely wild and really depressing what the DNC did to him.
Harris probably would have lost in any case, but in retrospect I wonder if she would have had a better chance if, of course, Biden dropped out sooner; and instead of the lame, “they’re so weird!” angle, if she had leveraged her time in criminal justice to press hard on the fact that Trump is a fucking criminal. Like seriously, criminal vs prosecutor. The narrative could have written itself.
Biden should have never run in the first place, sticking to his word to only take on one term. Proper DNC primary should have occurred, and the Dems would have gotten the strongest possible candidate regardless of who it ended up being.
Disagree with you on one point though: The “they’re weird” line of attack worked, it undercut anything that the Trump/Vance team could say or do. The problem was that line of attack was dropped for being too vulgar/uncouth - their political advisors instead pushed for a unity-style centrist campaign message, hence bringing on Liz Cheney of all people.
Biden should have never run in the first place
How else would the DNC justify not having the much exalted primary? You know, the time that blue maga says is the only appropriate time interact with the voting system beyond “vote blue no matter who”.
But thats FPTP too! Bernie supporters like you are why Warren lost. /s
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
A lot of people don’t like cops. And I don’t believe her time as AG was spotless enough to pin up against a man who had already (incomprehensibly) overcome the fact that he was found liable for sexual assault by his first term.
The “weird” thing was something that came up because of Walz genuine reaction about some fuckwit being weird.
And it was fucking working.
Then the Republicans got all whiney and saying the Democrats were being mean mud slingers for calling them weird when they were acting weird. And the campaign team decided that they were going to ease off one of the few levers that was actually working and exposing the lies and propaganda for what it was.
That said, your point on leveraging Harris’s strengths and past would have been great too.
That’s really not a bad idea
Been doing this for a year now and it’s LIBERATING. No. Regrets and haven’t looked back.
In my personal experience I find women are more willing to do this than straight men. Just putting that out there, and I wonder if anyone else feels the same
Hard to be around people who actively vote away your rights.
That’s pretty broad, who are we referring to here
I find women are more willing to do this
I don’t even live in the US and I know that the GOP is doing everything to strip rights from women.
Oh yeah yeah sorry misread your comment earlier. Agreed
I dunno, maybe the US Government making it a death sentence to have an abortion?
Yeah that’s bad, what are we arguing about exactly?
You thinking it’s okay to vote women’s rights away.
Did you mean to reply to someone else?
THAT’S why I’ve got so few friends! It’s my high standards for justice!
Do you need friends? I can make recommendations
I mean honestly if you’re in Los Angeles I’d be down for a Lemmy meetup for fun. I did that once with Wikipedians, good times!
That fuck is a zionist and proud, so probably not them if you’ve got a strong sense of justice https://thelemmy.club/comment/27905541
I’m not but I would! I want to go to LA again, my aunt lives in Venice Beach so I should probably hit her up. I did a meetup for the world cup and met some really cool people! Unfortunately in your 30s you have to start working for friends, they no longer fall into your lap
Well if you do this as a straight white male you lose every straight white male in your life so yeah it can seem daunting lol.
Is that supposed to be a problem?
I’d rather make diverse friends than make a friend with somebody that openly supports Trump and his ilk.
Is it weird that I, a cis & straight presenting, white man, make friends with people outside my demographics? I mean, I do make friends within my demographics, but they are absolutely not Trump supporters.
deleted by creator
Is it a loss?
deleted by creator
There are times I can’t tell them that, they’re clients where I work, etc, but I will not talk to them. Once they make a comment supporting this trash presidency, small talk stops, I get the job done and dip. Nothing extra, bare minimum. May not even say hi to you when I’m at your office.
Km glad I did find a lot of really cool clients i can commiserate together with.
Otherwise, fuck em all. You voted for a terrible terrible piece of shit that you would not even leave your daughter or wife with. You’re a shit person who does not deserve to share the air I breathe.
I’ve done this to even my close family members.
I’m willing to cut very special people in my immediate family a break if they renounce Trump, but they refuse to do that.
Their hill to die on is raping kids. They are, of course, devout Christians that constantly talk about God and love.
These people are hopelessly lost and stupid.
I don’t fully agree. Of course it’s problematic that people voted for trump, that’s out of the question. But the question should rather be: What circumstances led to someone voting for trump?
People are actually struggling a lot and voting for the person advertising a solution can seem very attractive if you desperately need an improvement.
In the end, voting doesn’t fix the underlying system and can only achieve marginal improvements. All Parties are only managing the same capitalistic state and not changing the whole system.
Ostracizing people based on their vote is not a proper solution and will not lead to people voting for someone different. People are more likely to reinforce their existing beliefs if met with heavy resistance.
Also the party war is distracting from the actual class war.
Maybe I took the meme too seriously but I think it’s important to consider.
No War But Class War!
Edit: Maybe don’t hang out with them, but analyze the reasons that made them vote in the way they did. People who voted for trump probably have the same problems with capitalism that you do but their anger is misguided by populism and capitalist propaganda.
“Voting for the person advertising a solution” ah yes, the dude who said “Concepts of a plan” And word-salad’s his way through everything because his brain is as smooth and squishy as half-melted butter. What an excellent solution man he is.
I’m not “ostracizing people based on their votes” I’m ostracizing people who actively want to strip me of my rights, and quite possibly want to physically harm me fuck off with this “We should all be friends, it’s the only way to convince them” shit. I’d have better luck convincing a hungry polar bear I’m not food.
We all knew who trump was going into 2024. I can forgive 2016, in truth, I didn’t expect him to be as bad as he was. I can barely forgive people who voted in 2020, because by then we all knew he was a fucking idiot and people should have known better. But 2024? Nah. Fuck them. We all saw how dumb he was, we all saw january 6th, we all knew about project 2025, anything less is willful ignorance.
It’s not just a “party war,” it’s a morality war. If you voted for trump in 2024, you have zero morals, empathy, and I genuinely believe you lack the capability to participate in society in any meaningful way.
I don’t think you are aware of how desperate a lot of people were. I know it’s easy to villainize people who want to take away the rights of people you love and yourself. My friends and me would be affected by his policy too if we lived in the US. But the people who voted for trump are still human and not evil in person. They have their own reasoning and problems, they were just convinced of the wrong target. They probably have a lot of the same problems with capitalism that a lot of people have. They just aren’t targeting capitalism but some minority or foreigners in general.
I actually live in the US. I have family that voted for him. They’re not desperate in the way you think they are. They’re all some combination of dumb, ignorant, or the worst of the bunch, the actually evil.
I tried to befriend them, to convince them that the enemy is not what they thought it was. I spent ten fucking years doing that shit. But in the end:
My cousin is dumb, he votes for trump because he thinks trump is an uneducated everyman like himself “He speaks the way I speak.”
My aunt is evil, she votes for trump because he makes her stock portfolio look good, damn the consequences “I voted for trump because we all need to vote for our own best interests.”
My grandma is ignorant, she doesn’t understand the way the world works today, things have changed too much from her generation to really grasp it “I voted for trump because the world is a scary place, and we need his security.”
All three are evil in their own way. My grandma never took the time to consider the viewpoint of others, no matter how many times she was given opportunity. My cousin never learned, or trusted in those that knew more than him on a subject. My aunt, the most vile of them all decided that she didn’t care enough about her kids and grandchildren, and that the bottom line was all that mattered.
There is no convincing these people. As another commenter said? Fuck em.
One day they will wake up, and realize that actions had consequences, and it’s far too late to take it back.
I know exactly these issues myself. It’s the same in Germany with AFD voters.
Why do you think your family believes that way? Do you think they were born that way/ born evil?
Raised in an evil culture. Christian Nationalism, White Supremacy, prosperity gospel, the Anerican myth of rugged individualism, there are many avenues but the main pressure is the same: they value only themselves or people closely aligned with them and believe personal gain is the most important goal. Or they’re the delusional cultists, the true believers that genuinely think they’re fighting a war for God in some way.
And that’s why I think people are able to convinced by discussion. It might take some time and it might be difficult but they are still human at the core. I don’t think people like this should get a platform but it is necessary to push against the spread of hatred and the deeply ingrained propaganda. It is difficult but not impossible.
Not worth the effort. Fix their children by supporting public education and fighting the sources of propaganda. Push for laws about what is allowed to be said in the news, punish lying or fraud.
Changing the mind of an adult who is not trying to change is close to impossible. One of the first steps in breaking indoctrination is cutting off from the source and any connected social ties or they’ll just get dragged back in. And those social ties make them feel good, they feel validated and important when their community agrees. You can’t fight that.
It might take some time and it might be difficult
It’s been over a decade and they’ve had mountains of facts dumped on them and it hasn’t moved the needle. The only thing that’s changing them is if they end up being personally affected by their own actions. And even then, they tend to just default to blaming liberals/democrats for their self-induced problems.
they are still human at the core
And? Plenty of irredeemably evil humans have existing throughout human history.
Raised in an evil culture is how most Republican voters end up being Republican voters. But I’d like to add that being raised in an evil culture is not an excuse for remaining evil as an adult.
Part of adulthood is accepting responsibility for your character and not continuing to blame your faults on your upbringing.
There are many people raised in religious households that grow up to not be religious. And religions are an EXTREMELY entrenched form of cult culture. So it’s totally possible to break free of programming.
I just don’t want to give conservatives an easy out to blame others. They don’t deserve it.
Democracy requires education / free press, modest prosperity and peace. We don’t have those any more. A socialist slogan: fascism is capitalism in decay. Also let the system and institutions rot. We know our election systems are garbage.
If you divide the population into a smarter and a stupider half (however you want to define that) the stupid half will always be easier to manipulate, distract, less able to foresee and understand the consequences of policy and decisions. Is it their fault that we let them be brainwashed with evil ideology and religion?
Advertising / public relations / brainwashing is a technology that significantly advanced. We didn’t. Those with money or power can hire the smartest people to make fool of us all.
Hierarchical systems require people to advance and each step filters who advances and who doesn’t. Instead of a meritocracy, it leads to selfish people who are solely focused on advancement at the expense of anything else like empathy, loyalty, education, truth etc. If you can’t play this game you loose. The larger the hierarchy, the worst scum you end up with at the top. And those at the top set the rules of society.
Democracy is fundamentally incompatible with capitalism. But the vast majority of people still believe in (neo)liberalism and the free market to somehow “as if by invisible hand” guide humanity towards a brighter future. Trump voters are stupid, agreed, but there is a lot of stupidity left for the rest of them.
Exactly, we got trump because he’s the president we deserve. I can’t count on one the amout of people i see throwing trahs out their window while driving, they dont give a fuck about this country at all, they just pretend to because it helps them make more money. If trump actually brings this country down, they’ll just fucking move to another country they own property in and cry about how the democrats ruined america.
You don’t even live in the US, whereas most of us here know or are closely related to people who voted for him.
But sure, you probably know better.
I’ve lived through the conditions that produced MAGA, and I honestly could not care less if they felt “desperate.” A lot of us have felt desperate, it doesn’t excuse literal fascism.
I’m sure slave owners felt desperate when Lincoln gave the Emancipation Proclamation. That’s about how much I care about MAGA voters’ claims of “desperation”.
By the way, try actually finding out specifically what those people mean and you’ll eventually realize that it comes down to ignorance, racism and xenophobia.
They became “desperate” after a black man was elected president twice.
But why do you think they are xenophobic or racist?
Doesn’t that stem from nationalist and capitalist propaganda.
The notion that one state is better that the others exists everywhere and reinforces the nationalism very heavily. This is just the basic competitiveness of capitalism, that has its roots everywhere.
All these issues can be attributed to the capitalist nature of the state
It’s because Europe and pacific Asia were humbled by the war. They know (culturally through their grandparents) that tyranny is not to be fooled around with. In the US we never got that lesson, in fact the war pulled us out of the Great Depression. So for our grandparents the lesson was war saved the economy and led to the US becoming the richest country in the world.
That’s why we’re so war hungry culturally as a people, we don’t know a war that was actually devastating for us, even WW2 was fought overseas not a single bomb was dropped on the mainland.
So now we have a population of morons who think war is good.
I thinks it’s also due to a lot of US exceptionalism propaganda. The US was always depicted as the savior or protector of the world. This has been ongoing for a long time, whicg is why the propaganda is soo deeply engrained in people’s minds and it is a lot work to actually get through to people affected by it.
It’s similar in Germany and a lot of the western world. Foreign countries are seen as uncivilized and people are only seen as humans if they can provide value to the nation. Propaganda is difficult to work against. Some people are easier to reach though and that shows that it is not impossible to reach people.
Yes but I think the lesson of WW2 shook the German people, like it did the Brits and French. Imagine a colonizer like Germany but didn’t really suffer much during WW2. That’s the US.
I’m done caring why
But why do you think they are xenophobic or racist?
Because they are too weak, stupid, and proud to end the cycle of abuse.
It’s like a man (or woman) beating the shit out of their child and then shrugging and saying “Well it was done to me”.
Not sure how I can say this more clearly. American conservatives are bad people.
My parents are comfortably retired and voted for Trump purely because Fox News (and possibly right-wing local TV news) brainrot told them to. Not even social media, which they are too computer-illiterate to use! Just TV!
(Well, maybe my dad’s church, too. I’ve never gone so I have no idea what they’re telling him. All I know is that him being more religious than my mom correlates with him being more brainwashed…)
Anyway, the point is that they definitely don’t have “desperation” as an excuse. Every single “problem” they have is either imaginary or actively being worsened by Trump and the Republican Party.
Hell, if you ask my mom why she didn’t vote for the Democrat (any of 'em, take your pick from Kamala Harris to Al Gore) it’s always some bullshit about how she didn’t like their tone, or something. She probably couldn’t name an actual policy position of theirs at gunpoint! She just sits around watching TV news and hates who the TV tells her to hate.
My Southern family are not desperate, they’re just the kind of Christian that cares more about abortion than anything else on Earth and are constantly plugged into the right-wing media propaganda.
My Eastern Washington family are not desperate, they’re just the special kind of entitled that refuses to accept that their wealth (banking and farming) came off the backs of others.
Tons of people voted for Trump because they’re bigots and have let themselves be convinced that their fantasy version of the country is being attacked by whatever group or groups they hate.
Religion is a similar but different issue which is very difficult to discuss about as it is often deeply engrained in people’s minds.
Rich people is kinda the opposite of what I was talking about. They often actively profit from trump or are not affected in the slightest. It is not the group we should be focused on convincing as they aren’t really workers.
People aren’t bigots out of nowhere. They have real worries but their anger is misguided by the ultrawealthy so they don’t lose their power.
The voters shouldn’t be the enemy. They are mostly victims of propaganda. The system needs this propaganda so few people can continue to profit. This applies to all of the categories above except if your relatives are part of the ultrawealthy.
They have real worries but their anger is misguided by the ultrawealthy so they don’t lose their power.
I love blaming shit on the ultrawealthy, but I think I’ll draw the line at bigotry. If someone is an adult and a bigot, that’s all on them.
I don’t think you are aware of how desperate a lot of people were.
Not an excuse. Never will be.
I know it’s easy to villainize people who want to take away the rights of people you love and yourself.
Umm…yeah.
But the people who voted for trump are still human
Sure are. They are evil humans. And they’ve proven that through their actions for a decade now. Well, more if you’ve been paying attention, but the last 10 years are a pretty good example.
They have their own reasoning
Their reasoning is not based in reality. They have been shown this repeatedly and have chosen to disregard.
The time for making excuses for them is over.
We all knew who trump was going into 2024. I can forgive 2016, in truth, I didn’t expect him to be as bad as he was.
I, for one, expected 2024 Trump in 2016. At this point, I’m still paralyzed by shock that we managed to get a second chance to save the country in 2020 and completely squandered it.
I guess my perspective is slightly different as I was fresh out of high-school, looking at my first presidential election, almost no interest in politics, and my only real opinion of trump in 2016 was “dude is disgusting and a moron.”
I ended up voting third party that election, something about if third party votes were above 5% they would earn more funding or something? I was in a very blue state at the time, so I knew trump wasnt going to win my state, and I figured maybe that 5% was doable that election.
I’m not “ostracizing people based on their votes” I’m ostracizing people who actively want to strip me of my rights, and quite possibly want to physically harm me
The democratic party supports the war on drugs alongside the republican party. I have lost people close to me because of tainted black market drugs of a unknown potency.
Goodbye Felicia.
Reminder that no 3rd party will control our federal goverment anytime in the remote future and probably not within your lifetime and that the Democrat party, while not perfect, is UNFATHOMABLY better at governing our nation and respecting our rights than the Republican party.
Vote intelligently.
Counterpoint: fuck 'em.
That is not how we will get past capitalism. We need to pick up people where they are. You don’t need to agree but you need to take problems and worries seriously to actually convince someone. Antagonizing only reinforces current opinions.
No, fuck them.
That’s a lot of words for “I will be hanging out with Nazis”.
Maybe not hanging out but at least trying to understand the reasons that led to the vote. I myself don’t have friends that voted AFD but I think they have a lot of the same problems that I do. Their anger is just very misguided.
It’s possible to both understand the reasons why the US election went the way it did, and hold individuals accountable for their behaviour, including the way they voted.
I have a lot of compassion for people who get so caught up in the right wing propaganda machine that they’re willing to vote against their own best interest out of fear. I can’t even begin to imagine living in so much terror of some nebulous other that I end up thinking it’s okay to round up immigrants, bomb children, and criminalize people’s gender identities. It sounds like a horrible way to exist in the world. I am so very angry at the systems that have allowed things to get this bad. That doesn’t change the fact that those individuals are still responsible for the harm their actions - and votes - have caused, and people who are willing to throw away basic human decency like that rather than put the work in to examine their own biases are not welcome anywhere near my life.
In other words, causing harm out of misguided anger does not diminish the harm done. So, fuck 'em. It’s not my job to play nice in the hopes that they’ll have some come-to-Jesus moment.
It’s possible to both understand the reasons why the US election went the way it did, and hold individuals accountable for their behaviour, including the way they voted.
Right? Why are people trying to make excuses for grown ass adults who have been ignoring a tsunami of facts for over a decade in favor of voting against the best interests of others AND themselves?
I’m old enough to have been around watching conservatives/regressives vote against their own best interests for quite some time, but it’s gotten a whole lot more gross over the last decade.
I will never view conservatives as good people and I’m glad more people are starting to reach that same conclusion. The masks are off now. We’re seeing what they’re really about.
Maybe not hanging out but at least trying to understand the reasons that led to the vote.
I’m telling you, we are past that.
That period is over.
They’ve lost the benefit of the doubt.
how about the people who worry about all those who voted for a rapist. Thrice?
voting for a rapist tells you one or two things, you are one yourself, or you support rape. theres no in between of maybes.
No War But Class War!
I’m so fucking sick of this motto. Intersectionality exists and should be more recognized by those on the left.
That’s not what the motto means though. Women’s rights and Minority rights are restricted because of capitalism. They have a purpose in the capitalistic world. The class war fights these issues as well. At least in the proper marxist theory.
Yeah Cesar Chavez is a shining example, isn’t he?
The left’s outright support of Platner certainly isn’t an indicator of issues on the left with this, is it?
I’ve heard that motto used to dismiss and downplay concerns about gender and equality so many times now.
I don’t know Chavez or Platner right now, sorry.
I know what you are talking about, I hate that too. Actual marxist theory attributes gender and equality to the class issue as well, which is why gender and equality are part of the class war. They should be viewed as one issue and not seperately. There won’t be gender equality before there is class equality.
Edit: looked up Chavez. I do agree with his tactics. The owning class has nothing without workers.
I think supporting Platner is a positive sign as it shows that the root cause is still visible.
Edit 2: I was not aware of these two people and their crimes. I only support their movements but not their personal actions. I should’ve researched them more.
Cesar Chavez is a rapist and pedophile.
I think supporting Platner is a positivd sign as it shows that the root cause is still visible
Platner is also a rapist.
Good to see you upholding Class War over Gender War though and pretending like they’re the same.
I think the union work actually helped with gender issue as equal pay and better pay helps a lot with emancipation.
It is still just as problematic, if he personally is an abuser
You believe that it’s good to look the other way on individual crimes if it benefits the working class?
This is exactly what I mean when I’m sick of hearing that motto being shoved everywhere there’s concerns that aren’t focused strictly on working class issues.
I agree with you. Trump and his White House cronies are corrupt, vile and self-serving criminals, rapists and bigots, but the fact they are in powerful office positions is a mere symptom of a wider problem with the American political, educational, media, and economic system.
Vowing to disassociate with anyone who voted for Trump and other rapists might make a good social media post or meme, but it does virtually nothing to resolve underlying issues, in order to prevent rapists from gaining power in the USA to begin with. In my eyes, solidarity is a more powerful tool than trying to find the true Scotsmen.
Exactly, their decisions might be bad/invalid but their problems are real
When I have problems I don’t default to being a bigot and hurting others.
but it does virtually nothing to resolve underlying issues
The reaching out period is over. For a decade we’ve tried to get them to see reason. I’m not doing another decade. When someone won’t listen to reason, the only tool you have left in your toolbox is to cut them off to see if that’s enough of a punishment to get through to them. Being lonely and ostracized can be a catalyst for change.
solidarity is a more powerful tool than trying to find the true Scotsmen
There is no solidarity with those who support felons and rapists in order to harm others and refuse to listen to even their own family and friends. That’s just a simple fact.
It’s important to take things case by case. There are always going to be unconvincable supporters, you don’t have to waste time, mental energy and breath on them, I get that. But I think the fraction of people who voted for a rapist criminal liar because they like rape, crime and lying is small. Bigotry is more popular, yes, but I think that’s because blaming minorities is a clear and simple ‘solution’ to complex issues, and it makes it super easy for the wealth class to pit the bottom 98% against each other. Loneliness and ostracism are what primed many people in the latter half of the 2010s to be exploited by the right-wing online radicalization pipeline.
And beyond just Trump, if you take guilt by association too far and without injecting nuance, you risk letting the biggest bigots win because our prospective allies don’t have perfectly squeaky clean records.
sidenote
I’ve long noticed N. American right-wing groups will bring people on when they agree on one thing regardless of anything else, and kick them out only once they’ve outlived their usefulness in accomplishing that. N. American left-wing groups I’ve found kinda the opposite where one point of disagreement will be the first thing that gets talked about, slowing down overall action. Not all bad though, those groups end up more aligned, but smaller and less capable of mass action. I think the situation is improving overall.
No war but class war! So I’m going to protect the class traitor that gave all the power to the Epstein class!
Not protect but analyze and understand. Then you can actually fight the issues
What circumstances led to someone voting for trump?
Propaganda and bigotry.
And there’s no excuse for either. Obviously there’s no excuse for bigotry, but even propaganda has no excuse. You gonna believe everything the commercials on TV tell you your entire life? You gonna send that Nigerian prince your entire life savings? Sounds like a you problem if so.
Any adult making an effort to behave responsibly isn’t going to fall for propaganda, especially the dogshit stupid propaganda the right cooks up. Especially over the course of a decade as the rest of the world dumps mountains of facts on you to let you know you’re falling for propaganda.
voting doesn’t fix the underlying system and can only achieve marginal improvements
Voting can fix the underlying system, marginally, over time. The catch is that the populace can’t be stupid and has to vote intelligently over time to allow that to happen. Democracy can’t be a well oiled machine if stupid people are gumming up the works.
Ostracizing people based on their vote is not a proper solution
That’s entirely dependent on the situation. You gonna go back in time and choose not to ostracize German citizens that supported the Nazi regime? Enough time has passed since Trumpism became a thing and enough events have unfolded and enough facts have come to light NOT to ostracize the people that keep supporting it. This isn’t funny meme shit anymore. Our economy is tanking, our rights have been infringed, our international reputation has been tarnished, American citizens have been illegally detained and EXECUTED, etc etc etc.
People are more likely to reinforce their existing beliefs if met with heavy resistance.
Not sure how many conservatives (regressives) you’ve interacted with. I’m here to assure you that no interaction with them, however nice or mean, is going to change their allegiance. If that was going to happen, it already would have. I’ve been watching conservatives for decades now and they will not change. I guarantee it. The only situation in which they’ll change is if their decisions start SERIOUSLY backfiring and significantly affecting them personally. And even then, they’ll resort to blaming liberals/democrats before they acknowledge their own mistakes and change themselves.
Also the party war is distracting from the actual class war.
There’s absolutely a class war. But when one party is REPEATEDLY AND OPENLY VIOLATING THE CONSTITUTION in favor of a felon rapist traitor, then the party war is very much a real thing and a real threat.
Look, the Confederacy was a real threat to the United States of America. Now conservatives/regressives are. They must be dealt with and the nice way isn’t going to work. Clearly.
“Fuck off shitbag. You can’t hang with us; You voted for a rapist pedophile.”
