and I can’t stress enough how much that’s a stepping stone and not, or even a significant part of, my whole solution or even what I advocate for
It will NEVER progress is exactly my point. You’ve chosen to always move to the right. The logic of why is not hard to understand.
Should the average person attempt to be more or less engaged with their political systems?
Of course. And that engagement should, in the US, primarily take the form of challenging the Democratic Party leadership as effectively as possible. They’re the largest obstacle to the left currently.
<comedian slow delivery>
Ok, now, hear me out, wait, gimmie a minute
primarily take the form of challenging the Democratic Party leadership as effectively as possible
What do you think I’ve been trying to say?
I’m one dude. My next more effective way of challenging the leadership will get me locked up and then I can’t challenge it again for like 10-20 years.
And you’re still sidestepping the point I was trying to make that was: engagement is helpful and discouraging it is not helpful.
Edit: and just to clarify, “both sides” kinds of comments are discouraging. – we can continue to argue about how to engage forever, I think, but this whole thread started with ‘stop saying both sides’.
This is nonsense. You’re claiming that saying, accurately, that Democrats support almost all the same evil positions Republicans do is “discouraging”?
Cool. Vote out the party leadership then.
You seem, like most Democratic loyalists, to think that if you wish really hard, THIS time your lesser evil strategy is going to work. Once again, you’ve been trying it for decades, and THIS is where it has brought you to. The GOP firmly in control of the government, while you continue to lose to an insane game show host.
I’ve told you how you can STOP doing that - and it STARTS with cleaning out the Democratic Party, and you ONLY do that by abandoning your lesser evil nonsense.
That’s literally what I’m trying to do. And I need help. We need more people in the process so that the leadership can be voted out if it doesn’t reflect us. The ‘both sides’ comments discourage others from getting involved. That’s what I pushed back on way back at the top of this thread.
What’s the other method, if not civic engagement? You seem to be hung up on the first half of my personal plan of less bad now while making more better later. I get that you think both sides are bad; but I think one side is less bad in general, and I see that making that party better requires more people to be part of it.
You seem to have given up on the idea it can be better. I haven’t. You said at the top that you had projects in your community that you were working on. Do they promote civic engagement, or are they palliative care for a terminal patient?
Given some of your phrasing, I don’t even think you are in the US, which is fine, but means we are talking more about the mechanics of politics than the details of US politics (though I get that they effect you; which is why the ‘get out’ part of your plan doesn’t work in my opinion).
My plan:
Be involved in local decisions. Join my precinct and either go or send people I trust to the district meetings. Support and vote for local candidates like mayor and city council, sheriff, dog catcher.
Encourage others online to do the same and push back when people discourage engagement. <-- we are here
(this one would be neat) Mold my city/county/state into a beacon of hope, where the government works for the people and is no longer captured by self-interest. Mamdani in New York is a pretty good example of what I mean, but that requires not just support in the populace, but also support in the rest of the government to allow them to function.
Get enough people in the districts to send people to the states to send people to the nation to elect people who aren’t millionaires to positions of power in the party.
Elect House, Senate and Presidents that are not millionaires or ancient and have the values of the people again.
You seem to think I’m stuck at #2 forever. Which is discouraging. Which is why I keep pushing back.
Aren’t you literally voting for them in the general, with your lesser evil strategy?
You’re conflating your strategy with civic engagement, as if that begins and ends with getting the vote out for Kamala.
You seem to have given up on the idea it can be better.
Not at all. I spend much of my time working on developing community projects for food, sharing, and the like - including software to enable those to work together (https://neighborsgoods.com/).
I don’t think things will get better in the US with your strategy - and as I’ve stated multiple times now, it’s because I’ve been a part of that too many times. It is self-contradictory. We see that even here, where you’re telling me you’re voting them out by voting for them.
Please consider what you’re doing, and spend your efforts in a more productive way.
It will NEVER progress is exactly my point. You’ve chosen to always move to the right. The logic of why is not hard to understand.
Of course. And that engagement should, in the US, primarily take the form of challenging the Democratic Party leadership as effectively as possible. They’re the largest obstacle to the left currently.
<comedian slow delivery> Ok, now, hear me out, wait, gimmie a minute
What do you think I’ve been trying to say?
I’m one dude. My next more effective way of challenging the leadership will get me locked up and then I can’t challenge it again for like 10-20 years.
And you’re still sidestepping the point I was trying to make that was: engagement is helpful and discouraging it is not helpful.
Edit: and just to clarify, “both sides” kinds of comments are discouraging. – we can continue to argue about how to engage forever, I think, but this whole thread started with ‘stop saying both sides’.
This is nonsense. You’re claiming that saying, accurately, that Democrats support almost all the same evil positions Republicans do is “discouraging”?
Cool. Vote out the party leadership then.
You seem, like most Democratic loyalists, to think that if you wish really hard, THIS time your lesser evil strategy is going to work. Once again, you’ve been trying it for decades, and THIS is where it has brought you to. The GOP firmly in control of the government, while you continue to lose to an insane game show host.
I’ve told you how you can STOP doing that - and it STARTS with cleaning out the Democratic Party, and you ONLY do that by abandoning your lesser evil nonsense.
We’re done here.
That’s literally what I’m trying to do. And I need help. We need more people in the process so that the leadership can be voted out if it doesn’t reflect us. The ‘both sides’ comments discourage others from getting involved. That’s what I pushed back on way back at the top of this thread.
What’s the other method, if not civic engagement? You seem to be hung up on the first half of my personal plan of less bad now while making more better later. I get that you think both sides are bad; but I think one side is less bad in general, and I see that making that party better requires more people to be part of it.
You seem to have given up on the idea it can be better. I haven’t. You said at the top that you had projects in your community that you were working on. Do they promote civic engagement, or are they palliative care for a terminal patient?
Given some of your phrasing, I don’t even think you are in the US, which is fine, but means we are talking more about the mechanics of politics than the details of US politics (though I get that they effect you; which is why the ‘get out’ part of your plan doesn’t work in my opinion).
My plan:
You seem to think I’m stuck at #2 forever. Which is discouraging. Which is why I keep pushing back.
Aren’t you literally voting for them in the general, with your lesser evil strategy?
You’re conflating your strategy with civic engagement, as if that begins and ends with getting the vote out for Kamala.
Not at all. I spend much of my time working on developing community projects for food, sharing, and the like - including software to enable those to work together (https://neighborsgoods.com/).
I don’t think things will get better in the US with your strategy - and as I’ve stated multiple times now, it’s because I’ve been a part of that too many times. It is self-contradictory. We see that even here, where you’re telling me you’re voting them out by voting for them.
Please consider what you’re doing, and spend your efforts in a more productive way.