• Wildmimic@anarchist.nexusEnglish
      5·
      1 month ago

      I fully agree. I am a user with a bit of technical background, but not a lot of detailled knowledge about the inner workings of an operating system (i know boolean logic and basic programming structures - in Pascal lol - from the 90’s, what a transistor does and stuff, how to build my own PCs and handle filesystems and troubleshooting).

      With init scripts, i hit a wall pretty fast.

      With Systemd i know how to start, stop and configure services, and the suite built around it uses the same conventions everywhere, making the everyday life with Linux for someone like me so much easier and more transparent than ever before.

    • michaelmrose@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      1 month ago

      Have you considered that just “reaping old process IDs” wasn’t enough responsibility for an init daemon on a secure, robust system? That maybe it should be protecting other parts of the system and tracking the liveness of a desired service?

      What is the benefit of specifically doing that in init?

      If I see an argument like this then I can only assume the interlocutor doesn’t do software engineering.

      Its more likely that the user simply has simple needs like running stuff at startup which any init system can do and doesn’t see as much benefits as poster.

      Also who loves systemd-resolved?

      • anyhow2503@lemmy.world
        2·
        1 month ago

        What is the benefit of specifically doing that in init?

        What’s the alternative?

        Also who loves systemd-resolved?

        I don’t think I will ever love anything DNS-related, but it’s still the best solution I’ve used for name resolution on a system with many interfaces.

      • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        1 month ago

        Being able to assign a nameserver per interface with a domain wildcard is a fucking godsend. I use it every day with a hook script because my job uses some private domains but I don’t want to send my entire DNS history through the VPN. Now ~job.com goes to tun0 and that’s the end of it.

        systemd-resolved is not perfect but with libnss’s overly rigid nature the only alternative for my use-case would be to recreate similar functionality to resolved with dnsmasq – which is just objectively worse especially when you want to use DHCP sometimes but not always. Why reinvent the wheel? resolved does its job and does it well. I had some issues with it a few years ago but have been using it for the past couple years without complaint.

      • Rooty@lemmy.world
        1·
        1 month ago

        I still remember the bad old days of stale repositories and compiling from scratch. Never again.

      • Cenzorrll@lemmy.world
        0·
        1 month ago

        I just had an issue with the vscodium flatpak, been using it for two months with no issue in an online course, got to learning GUIs, import module, doesn’t exist. I couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t there, installed three different python versions of it three different ways, still nothing. Couldn’t even get vscodium to point to a different interpreter that I knew was there (yet it doesn’t say it’s not there, just that some things won’t work). Still nothing. Three hours later, after trying everything I could think of, I realized that it was because I installed the flatpak version when it clicked that it worked in Geany and I didn’t have python 3.13 in my repos, yet that was the only one I could see in vscodium.

  • floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    4·
    1 month ago

    Systemd is fine.

    Journald is fine.

    But someone pass me a mace I can beat systemd-resolved and systemd-logind to death with

    EDIT: Oh come on

  • ronflex@lemmy.world
    4·
    1 month ago

    Systemd has simplified my life on a few occasions, and it seems to be reliable from what I can tell. At the end of the day if I can get the OS to do what I want in a relatively simple matter, that’s all I care about.

    • Lettuce eat lettuce@lemmy.ml
      2·
      1 month ago

      In all seriousness, I’ve yet to encounter a situation where Systemd made any meaningful negative difference in my Linux experience.

      I’ve never had problems with any init system, Systemd or otherwise.

    • Trainguyrom@reddthat.comEnglish
      1·
      1 month ago

      Since I started actually doing system administration and actually interacting directly with SystemD all of the hate for it I’d soaked up from enthusiast forums melted away. I’ve never used any of the other init systems so maybe I’m missing out, but I do appreciate SystemD for what it does

  • JackbyDev@programming.devEnglish
    2·
    1 month ago

    I don’t get the systemd hate. The most common complaint I see is that it’s too bloated, but Arch uses it, so what gives? Is it just that people dislike change? Like Wayland hate (not Wayland frustration)?

    • PiraHxCx@lemmy.mlEnglish
      2·
      1 month ago

      From what I heard, people hate systemd because Linus Torvald was approached by the NSA to create a backdoor on Linux, he said it wouldn’t be possible to change the kernel because there were too many eyes on it, there was a mysterious hack of kernel.org introduced a mysterious code but it was spotted and removed… well, what was the only other thing common to all Linux? The sysv-init, but it was too small, too tight, too specific for them to create a backdoor there, they needed something big, bloated, doing way more than it should do, like it was just supposed to start the system but it can also do unrelated stuff like handling DNS, and an American company shows up bringing systemd, that solved all the problems the NSA had to create a backdoor on Linux, and all distros jumped into the honeypot :)

    • The Stoned Hacker@lemmy.world
      1·
      1 month ago

      So people hate on systemd because they interpret it as an init system thats gone too far and has thus violated the unix principle. in reality systemd is an entire suite of tools based around a very feature rich and robust service management suite that also includes an init system. there is something to be said about the Linux ecosystem’s reliance on systemd, but there are no comparable tools. this is why Arch uses systemd. if you dont want to use systemd, you can use distros like Arco Linux; however currently Gnome no longer works on Arco

      • Verat@sh.itjust.works
        2·
        1 month ago

        Part of the problem with it is that it is very difficult not to use it, for instance if your code uses dbus, that makes systemd a dependency and almost all of the tools are like this. Want to use alternate software with systemd init? A-OK! want to use systemd tools without systemd init? Too bad! This inter-dependence is what I think makes it break the unix philosophy, its components dont like to be replaced or used outside of the “intended” environment of systemd init, keeping it from being replaced without breakage on lot of systems.

        On my install for instance, systemd is roped in by xdg-user-dirs (and hence steam), flatpak, fcitx5, and cups. And that is just a few. So the init system isnt a problem to me, the lack of drop-in replacements for its suite of tools is.

    • jj4211@lemmy.world
      1·
      1 month ago

      Generally I see a few:

      • People wanting the highly deterministic, but slower behavior of the rc scripts.
      • People liking the fact that the rc startup was generally almost entirely defined in plain script files
      • Some folks criticizing certain opinionated things in systemd, as systemd delves deeper into things like capabilities and users.
      • Systemd can sometimes be a bit weird about how it does/does not capture stdout/stderr as one might guess in some situations.
      • Some folks not liking the journald angle of binary-only files

      Mainly the last point is the only one I personally find potentially aggravating, but since I never really am in a broken system without journalctl I’m not too bothered by it. I have saved myself some effort thanks to systemd including stuff that the daemons used to provide for themselves.

    • mittorn@masturbated.one
      0·
      1 month ago

      @JackbyDev @nutbutter
      People dislike unwanted change. Imagine, you are using some distro for years, and after some update everything changes and you cannot configure system usual way. Many software is changing behaviour You need read tons of docs to change something or worse, while your system hang at boot.
      My first try using systemd ended in kernel hang after too much systemd’s dmesg flooding (that was slow arm board, so it’s unlikely someone might help me with debugging it)
      But yes, many people just hate systemd because it was forced change, not even because it’s too complex

      • Ferk@programming.dev
        1·
        1 month ago

        I’d argue that the systemd trend actually is the one that’s change-adverse.

        I remember that before systemd there was a lot of innovation when it comes to init systems… the flexibility of the script-based inits made it so most distros had their own spin. And there was more diversity in components that now are part of systemd. I’d argue that ever since systemd became the de-facto standard, innovation in those areas has become niche. Distros are becoming more homogeneous and less open to changes in that sense. Some components are becoming more and more interdependent and it’s becoming harder to ship, for example, Gnome, without systemd.

  • whoisearth@lemmy.ca
    2·
    1 month ago

    My biggest complaint with systemd…

    Service xxx stop/start/restart is so much easier than

    Systemctl stop/start/restart xxx

    It fucking annoys me

    • Petter1@discuss.tchncs.de
      2·
      1 month ago

      I neaver bothered me too much, can you not alias stop to sudo sytemctl stop xxx

      Like that you can write “stop wpa_supplicant” instead od “Sudo systemctl stop wpa_supplicant. “

  • Dhar@lemmy.ca
    1·
    1 month ago

    I’m still waiting for them to get DNS and user services working. Then it’ll finally be usable.

    • tal@olio.cafeEnglish
      1·
      1 month ago

      DNS

      There’s systemd-resolved. I don’t know if you mean that it has some kind of limitation.

      • Dhar@lemmy.ca
        1·
        1 month ago

        It doesn’t work with private DNS servers or forward DNS over VPN. Removing it is always the first thing I have to do with new Linux installs.