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Google is making it mandatory to have Play Services for its next-generation reCAPTCHA system on Android.
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Your phone will need to be running Play Services version 25.41.30 or greater when the system asks you to scan a QR code for verification.
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This hurdle means that de-Googled phones will fail the verification test by default.
I’m getting real tired of the escalating corporate-mediated fascism.
A lot of Android bot devices simulate (or even ARE) a full phone with a legit Play Store and other Google services.
This requirement is enforced vendor lock in. Nothing more.
The real use case for redroid lol
There is a fucking huge market for non Google non iPhone come on somebody get the fuck on it
And de-enshittified analog cars. They need to hurry tf up.
I really hate the idea that any car I buy in the future is going to come stuffed with fucky software that I don’t want. Software defined car my fucking brown asshole.
I don’t want some old jalopy with a carburetor and crank windows, but there’s so little benefit to the individual for all the shit that I can’t imagine wanting it.
I do my own repairs and I hate that half the time I need to get my laptop out to reset a thing, clear a code, re-initiate some shit. Pulling the battery cable off used to work for most things, but not anymore and for a long time.
I bought the car, but they own the software? So if I want do change or repair something, I have to pay them, but if the software shits the bed, I have to pay them? Everything ends with me paying them for something I already paid for.
Fuck that.
Sailfish is awesome. It just doesn’t work on any phones that work in north America anymore.
Sailfish is closed-source, isn’t it? I want to be excited about it, but I am hesitant about another closed-source OS.
well it’s kinda semi open sadly…
monopoly capital tisk tisk tisk… we need to keep the children safe… don’t you care about the children?
Big market, but also huge barrier to entry to get a phone ecosystem off the ground. MS, Amazon, Facebook, Mozilla and many others have tried and failed. Apple and Google have huge moats
they had the benefits of being first in the market.
They weren’t really first though? Symbian, Windows Mobile and Blackberry were around but couldn’t keep up
This is awesome news for scammers:
- Fake page will say “you need to scan this qr code to verify you’re human”
- Users normally dismisses this shit, but it has become normal nowadays, take out the phone to scan it
- Qr code opens a page on totallynotascam.com that say “you need to install this totally safe APK on your device for verification 😉”
- APK passes the new useless developer “verification” as the scammer either used a hacked dev account or just paid $25 with a stolen id + stolen credit card
- User see the message “APK verified by Google play protect” and would totally believe the bullshit, giving all the possible permissions to the app
Don’t even need an app. There’s a root LPE almost monthly now most of android takes a month or more to patch. Just need a common exploitable app to handle your link and get your initial shell.
I won’t install an app to access a fucking website.
Wait wait wait. To prove you’re human you have to read something designed for computers to read?
To be honest, most of what they use now is pretty easy for machines to do. Mostly because they’ve been using the captcha to train ocr and self driving.
OMG is that why I always have to identify bicycles and crosswalks? That makes sense.
And started off with letter identification to help with reading scanned books. For example, place 3 known 'R’s tell users to select all R’s. If majority of people select 4 R’s then that unknown 4th R becomes a known letter
I knew that function. And improving OCR felt like a worthwhile endeavor to crowdsource. There are a lot of old books that we need to digitize before we lose them forever.
The pivot to recognizing things for self-driving cars makes a lot of sense, but I really don’t like the idea that I’m increasing shareholder value for Tesla.
We need to move away from Google. Just make them obselete.
the more we keep pushing back the more we can try and make them obsolete!
Ignoring the de-Googled phones for a sec: I assume if you’re using a desktop, then the QR shows up and you have to drag out your phone to scan it in the camera app that then prompts to open the google play store. Dumb, but possible for people who have a phone with Android. What about those that don’t? Would you need a google account?
Now if it’s all on phone (using Chrome or Firefox or whatever) and pops up a QR code, you can’t scan it… but the browser would have to open the play store directly and thats a huge security no-no. The browser shouldn’t even know I have the Play Store.
I have a feeling the hundreds of us that are de-Googled ad just going to stop using these sites all together.
…and what about iPhone owners?
https://support.google.com/recaptcha/answer/16609652
According to this support page only older iOS versions would need additional app. So I can assume Apple and Google collaborate on that and Apple added the “feature” in newer iOS already.
Bro wtf? Time to stop using the website using these anti-competitive captchas. I hope they get fined for this
Fined by whom? Every government on the planet is doing everything in their power to erode privacy from the internet, and they’re using Apple and Google to do it.
And desktop users? Will Linux and any non-Google Chrome browsers be locked out now?
You’ll probably have to install a Google app I guess.
The browser shouldn’t even know I have the Play Store.
Every app on your Android phone knows every other app you have installed. GrapheneOS are trying to solve this but it’s challenging.
I’m not even de-Googled (yet) and I wouldn’t bother with this shit. It’s an instant close in that tab, and if it’s something I need then I’ll find another service.
Yeah, so the hundreds of us won’t be able to use the internet anymore if this passes
Awesome
Google doesn’t care about screwing up the lives of thousands of people, as long as it can capture the information of millions.
At this part I’m genuinely starting to wonder which parts of the internet I really need.
We will (actually already have) make our own Internet, with blackjack, and hookers.
What about people who use iPhones? Even if I used a normal google android I wouldn’t want to be bothered to scan a qr code with my phone to verify myself every time
I was wondering how they would screw the new Motorola phones coming out since they couldn’t do the whole “factory operating system has been tampered with” mode of whining and being little bitches.
Glad to see their engineers came up with another way to fuck us! Thanks google!
Would this pass in EU? Seems anti competition. Do we need another movement like stop chat control to mobilize people?
It’s not just anti-competition, but anti-privacy - Google will know exactly who is going to what sites, regardless of your browser.
Probably not, but my expectations is the EU will slam them with a record fine of 0.03% of their monthly revenue after 5 years of investigations and obligation to provide an alternative solution, that they will work around so it still does not fix anything.
By the time the damages would be done.
Has anyone seen the benefits of EU’s mandatory opening of chat systems to third parties yet??
Oh god ur right :(
Yeah, this should definitely not be allowed. Google should not be allowed to dictate which operating systems people are allowed to use. And no doubt that this is harmful to many European companies and prevents competition in the space of mobile operating systems.
That said, it remains to be seen if anything will get done about it.
I’ve scanned 4 QR codes in my life. 2 were not what I was told they would be.
I will never scan a QR code again.
I scanned a QR code once. I got JSON data back, with embedded links and other useless metadata.
Better use the self-checkout while you still can!
https://www.gs1us.org/industries-and-insights/by-topic/sunrise-2027
Why the hell did that website request my precise location data? No, get the fuck out of here with that BS.
oh god this can get fuuuuuuucked
Once this is implemented, Google will have finally succeeded in closing the entire fucking internet. That is, assuming this will become anywhere successful and smaller websites will be using it as well.
Embrace
Extend
Extinguish <- Google is here with Android as an open platform
“Google’s next-gen reCAPTCHA system could spell trouble for any website that implements it as no de-Googled phone user will care to use it”
That demographic is so small as to be irrelevant to the majority of companies.
Which is why governments exist. Supposedly.
@ennof@feddit.org @LuminousLuddite@lemmy.world @technology@lemmy.world
As if it were a matter of caring or wanting/not wanting to use websites… It would be really nice to live in such a world where one could have the luxury of “choosing”. Unfortunately, it’s not this world for many people and many peoples.
To exemplify this, there are websites I, as a Brazilian, can’t simply choose whether to use or not, because there are government and bureau websites for services through which I’m expected to comply with citizen things I didn’t ask for (as I didn’t ask to be born in this world to begin with). Online services such as “DETRAN” (state-wise transportation bureaus where one must renew one’s driver’s license), which I remember having to click a reCAPTCHA in order to proceed with transportation-related citizen duties. I can’t have the luxury of saying “you know what, I’m not renewing my driver’s license which has become my ID for a plethora of services not even related to driving, which means I’m going ID-less and becoming a legally-indigent person in the eyes of the next cop that requests my ID”.
Hell, I can’t even choose to have a degoogled phone because our customs (Receita Federal) will likely deny the entry for any “unlicensed device” (i.e. devices not licensed by ANATEL, Brazilian telecommunication agency). And installing a custom ROM in any available device is not without the risk of bricking the device (and losing a monthly minimum wage worth of money spent with said device) especially for someone like me who never installed custom ROMs.
Again, would be really awesome to live in the world you described where one could afford “caring to use” things…
Well the good thing is that now Google enshittified recaptcha and now if the website owner wants to implement it, needs to pay $1 for 1000 verification requests which is crazy expensive for something that as of now it’s easy to pass as a bot than as a human (bots ask the voice verification and ask a LLM to interpret that, pass recaptcha in less than a second. Humans need to click on 25 traffic lights and give up in the process)
Removed by mod
@dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works TIL Philipp Mainländer, David Benatar and countless other competent philosophers were/are all teenagers doing teenager ramblings!
All depends on your perspective I suppose. I didn’t ask to be messaged by you so I figure I’m absolved right?
At that point, reCAPTCHA will forgo the old image puzzles and require you to scan a QR code with your smartphone to prove you’re human.
What is that supposed to mean? What QR code? Just any? I’m supposed to find some QR code laying around and scan it? Or will the webpage display a QR and I’m supposed to scan it with my phone using a mirror or something?
The example image I saw was of a page opened on a laptop, which prompted you to scan with a phone. If you don’t have a (compatible) phone, I’m curious how that would go.
Oh, I thought they are talking about browsing on their phones.
That still makes very little sense. What if someone has an iPhone? What if I am browsing on my phone? What if I don’t have my phone near me? This sounds like some optional, extreme case feature. Like when they are pretty much sure you’re a bot but the website optionally gives you last one chance to prove you’re not instead of just rejecting your request.
What if someone has an iPhone?
Per https://support.google.com/recaptcha/answer/16609652
Supported Environments for reCAPTCHA Mobile Verification:
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Android Devices:
- Google Play Services version 25.41.30 or greater.
- To verify Google Play Services version on an Android device, open Settings > Apps > All Apps > Google Play Services
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iOS/iPadOS devices for QR Code Scan:
- Version 15.0 or greater.
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iOS/iPadOS devices for “Click to Verify” Button:
- Version 16.4 or greater.
- Version 15.0-16.4 with the reCAPTCHA app installed.
What if I am browsing on my phone?
I’m not seeing anything related to that specifically, but I imagine a (supported) mobile browser will be able to interface with Play Services directly and not need a QR code challenge.
If you use an unsupported browser, I think we can both guess what’s gonna happen. As for what browsers are supported:
Browser requirements for reCAPTCHA
We support the two most recent major versions of the following:
- desktop (Windows, Linux, Mac) - Chrome - Firefox - Safari - Chromium Edge
- mobile
- Chrome
- Safari
- Android native browser
Guess if you’re using Firefox mobile, you’re fucked - plz switch to Chrome, thank you and welcome to our digital
prisonsaferoom!What if I don’t have my phone near me?
You mean you don’t carry our surveillance device with you 23/7 (we’ll give you an hour for sleep)?
I’m somehow reminded of that mobile Diablo announcement and the surprised response “Don’t you guys have phones?”
This sounds like some optional, extreme case feature. Like when they are pretty much sure you’re a bot but the website optionally gives you last one chance to prove you’re not instead of just rejecting your request.
The stated goal is to fight fraudulent agentic AI: “As we identify potentially fraudulent behavior from agents, we enable application providers to deter and mitigate malicious requests by requesting humans to be in the loop using the new QR code-based challenge.”
So they’d do this when they suspect the thing interacting with the page is not a human, but expects a human to be involved with the process. How exactly that “potentially fraudulent behavior” would be detected is a different question and I have absolutely zero faith that it will fulfill its mission dutifully and without collateral damage. But then, if you’re compliant with their requirements, that collateral damage is negligible. They made sure that the
prisonsaferoom is really comfy.Thanks for checking. That clarifies things a lot.
I guess we’re fucked. reCaptcha is not used for visiting websites but for registering or submitting form. I can think of couple of cases where I’m required to complete captcha for online shopping or, ever worse, for work. Step by step they will force us all to either use approved devices or be locked out of big parts of the internet.
This is of course thanks to all the people shitting on Firefox over the years and saying that Chrome is just better and that there’s nothing wrong with giving Google control over the web. So yeah, thanks.
This is of course thanks to all the people shitting on Firefox over the years and saying that Chrome is just better and that there’s nothing wrong with giving Google control over the web. So yeah, thanks.
No it’s not thanks to those people. Blaming individuals for not stopping what a much bigger, infinitely more resourced, organized actor has been/is doing to maximize profit is shifting the material responsibiltiy from the actor with real power to the actors without. It’s like the personal carbon footprint oil&gas came up with to shift responsibility for climate pollution from themselves to individuals. Or plastic and recycling. It feels good to lay blame on those people who did something we did not but it doesn’t help change anything material beyond that. Divides us into camps which prevents us from organizing against the profit-driven culprits.
No, it’s absolutely not like oil & gas. Average person has very little impact on the energy policy of their country but has huge impact on the browser they are using. And I’m not talking about the ignorant people using the default browser without understanding the difference between Chrome and Google. I’m talking about all the technically literate people that should known better but chose to use Chrome because it’s slightly more convenient. The people that attack Mozilla for not being able to compete with Google with fraction of their resources. When the only way to browse the web is with Google account I will definitely remember those people.
The technically lirerate people aren’t exempt from the power dynamics created by the vast market share of Chrome and Google, created and reinforced by Google. Even if they/we have some more freedom to maneuver. We still only test our web app features on Chromium because there’s limited time for testing, if any, and we can’t convince product that making sure the feature works, or fixing bugs on a 2-3% browser is priority. If all the developers in the world used Firefox, it would still not change this power dynamic.
I am shocked constantly by the number to tech-savvy people in my circle that still use chrome… Like, they complain that ublock origin “died” and I can’t help but stare slack-jawed at them…
I had unsolvable captcha for Github once. Fuck ne, I guess. I just wanted to contribute something, but whatever.
Step by step they will force us all to either use approved devices or be locked out of big parts of the internet.
there’s nothing wrong with giving Google control over the web
To quote a song about a “Fairytale of Doom”:
Blinded by gold and blinded by diamonds
I let you chain me in silk
You told me lies, I drowned in your eyes
And in all those castles you builtSilver the treasure and gold in the cages
Nothing was quite as it seemed
And when I realized, you turned the key and
I saw your eyes full of greed
It was too late when I screamedI try to stay optimistic that this won’t be tenable. Giving in to despair makes it harder to muster the will to resist. But I won’t deny it’s getting tougher.
Zugzwang strategy. You have to make move, there’s not even an option not to play.
It’s not just about capturing the mobile phone market and punishing alternate ROM developers, it’s also pushing people into the market that might otherwise choose to have a dumb phone, no phone, do things in person, via mail, etc. No android/iPhone? Good luck with online shopping, communicating with medical providers, checking your kid’s grades online, paying utility bills, taxes, etc. etc.
As the boomers die off, and fewer people do things the pre-internet way, there’s no incentive for governments, businesses, and so forth to maintain those processes and systems. Why would we have a receptionist take appointments by phone if she’s just typing them into the same web interface? Why print report cards when we can post them online? Why maintain a storefront and not just warehouses like Amazon?
Opt-in to surveillance or opt out of necessary parts of life, all under the guise of “convenience”.
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They’ll mail you one. Can’t use the Internet without a physical interface. Don’t worry though, you won’t need a CD ROM for this one.
