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Be honest; No one that would travel from Europe to the World Cup cares one bit about social issues.
Of course not, the tip is just viewed as an additional surcharge and they don’t want to spend that money. The social issue is very likely, if at all, just an after-the-fact rationalisation/justification.
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If you’re going to the US, you’re supporting whatever is going on over there. It makes you worse than the many people in the US that were born there for no fault of their own, now trying to work against it.
Schadenfreude, while very natural, is bad enough by itself, actually increasing the Schaden is even worse. So I’m not sure exactly what you’d be celebrating, except your own shittyness.
And I’m not from the US, so “my” nation isn’t even the one you’re talking about.
Yeah but then they don’t get to circlejerk about how superior they are.
The problem is that the 340 million people there are incredibly diverse. While a large part would circlejerk about how superior they are, another large part wouldn’t. It’s easy and fun to lump all Americans together, and even mandated by our brains inability to process such large numbers, but doing it always unfortunately alienates the ones that do not exhibit the traits you ridicule.
It’s so much better (and useful) to just ridicule the traits/behaviors themselves instead of the relatively unrelated nationality. There’s nationalists and smug superiority everywhere.
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I wouldn’t go there because I don’t have an X or twitter for them to interrogate my opinions… and I’m far too jokey to not upset people and get myself in trouble with people in “authority”.
I’ve gotta wait out the American decline until some time after Balkanisation and they start removing some of the guns. Honestly, it seems about as sensible as going to do tourism in the congo.
Join in with us, pass the popcorn then.
You won’t see less guns following a civil war.
It’s rough seeing how smug europeans are about american fascism when every time you look at european news you see their own fascist splinter groups gaining more political traction with none of them really doing anything about it. Maybe worry about yourselves before worrying about us, right?
Unfortunately, the US regularly intervenes in foreign countries’ affairs, so it’s not possible and geopolitically pretty stupid to not worry about the US. You can worry about both, though.
You can worry about both, though.
The issue is they aren’t. They just complain about the US and ignore their own country moving down that path. When they have the best ability to prevent it from getting bad early.
You know that almost all far right parties in Europe get money from the MAGAts, right?
And MAGAts got their money from far right Europeans. What’s your point?
Uhhuh sure buddy. Lets pretend its spooky secretive europeans funding the american fascism parties.
Yeah. It’s interesting they all working together (despite being nationalistic) sending each other funds, and they all have a very positive view towards Russia.
I’m surprised there people who believe it is all organic.
About a decade ago, Steve Bannon very overtly came to Europe with money from the Koch Foundation openly to “Fund Far-Right parties”.
In many places in Europe the rise of the Far-Right happened after that.
Similarly, in Britain it turned out that most of the social media manipulation in favor of Leave was done by Cambridge Analitica, a British company which was being paid to do it by wealthy Americans.
America actively funds the Far-Right in Europe, especially the anti-EU crowd since EU member nations were a lot easier to push around by America and American interests individually, than they are grouped into the EU (even if parts of the EU, such as the EU Commission, have pretty much sold themselves out to large American companies)
Yeah they love pointing at European fascism but being remarkably blind at drawing the connections themselves.
Funded by not Americans.
No being a fucking billionaire South African who can go wherever he wants isn’t an American. There’s multiple of those people, even!
Your country started that. And because your double agent of a president is Putin’s pawn, guess what? Putin received leeway to muddy Europe’s water too, with an unstoppable hybrid war. Every news article, every forum, every community I used to visit is now filled with bots that, as soon as politics is mentioned, chimes in about the “rapist immigrants that are stealing your job” and how “Europe is a failed continent that’ll turn your kids trans/gay”.
It’s hilarious, isn’t it? US and Russia shit on ME and Africa, which causes a huge wave of political and war refugees/economic immigrants to run from the horrors that YOUR country is responsible for.
And instead of us trying to think how to handle the piece of shit to the East, and how to protect our borders from illegal immigration, we have an ex-ally to the West, who is eyeing sovereign European territory.
And you have the audacity to call us smug? No, we are just familiar with history and evil men in power.
And so you take it out on waiters?
I don’t.
This guy is right on the money btw. You may not like it, but it be like it do.
Truth is often uncomfortable
Stop with this nonsense Trump is a continuation of a long tradition of American imperialism not a “Russian puppet”.
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Europe invented fascism I don’t care :)
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You are not wrong, but fucking all american shit comes here with a 10 year delay for some reason (obesity, economic crisis, far right/proto fascism, anti vax, neoliberalism, the list goes on and on and on) so maybe that’s why people like to have a go at your country when it looks like you’re beating up yourselves while making it a spectacle.
I hope you’ll finally figure it out, good luck!
So you should see it coming and stop it.
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Celebrating other people’s misery is the reason humans could never get along in the first place. It’s tribalism, same thing they’ve used for thousands of years to divide people.
Don’t worry, European countries have their own fascism problem, not far behind the U.S.
Then we can all be miserable together.
And this will be the first time in history that fascists in power have access to a fully-immersive (and inescapable) digital panopticon complete with AI to process more data that humans would be capable of doing unassisted, and adding concerningly high rates of hallucinations on top of it, even aside from the biases and spins that are baked into their algorithms…
Oh and military technology has come a long way since the last time fascists gained enough influence to threaten the world order…
This isn’t going to be good if we can’t all pull ourselves out of this death spiral before it’s too late…
Why’d you assume he’s from the US?
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How you invested bud?
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So you don’t even have money to invest. Good luck 🥲
Jesus Christ you clap for your own demise.
Sounds of cheering when the America is glassing the sandbox
The boomerang is coming home and the schadenfreude is too enticing.
Send in the Goths, and hurry!
Also, all the bars and restaurants started tacking a 20% “tip” straight into the bill instead of making it voluntary.
I wouldn’t blame them after these reports. Need to hold rude Europeans accountable.
Or you know. Fuck tipping culture instead of paying your employees. The bar is charging $8 for 80 cents of bottom shelf booze in a mixed drink and right now they’re swamped in business with people racking up hundreds in drinks and bar food. You don’t think they could afford to bonus out their staff?
Fuck you.
I’m not saying they couldn’t, I’m saying they won’t. You’re happy to patronize those locations and give the owners $8/drink but not pay the staff.
Fuck you, friend.
You dont have to come here shit bag. Nice job proving magats right about how awful forgeners are.
oh look. Someone who thinks they earned an extra $20 for walking over a couple plates, when other people did all the work preparing it.
Literally the only people against getting rid of tipping and making the owners pay a real wage are the wait staff. They don’t want to pay taxes on everything they make, and they know that they’d make less money if they were just paid by the hour.
They even got greedy as hell trying to push the normal up to 20% or more. The standard tip used to be between 10% and 15% for decades. The price of food and eating out has gone up with inflation, so why would that percentage need to change?
Tell me you never worked in a restaurant without saying you never worked in a restaurant
oh shit. Are you also saying you folded napkins and had to speak to people or use a reguster? Wow. That almost sounds like the things an hourly paid employee would do!
Not a single one?
Can’t support corrupt organizations and regimes and also claim to be socially aware. Mutual exclusivity.
No ethical consumption under capitalism. Can believe workers should be paid by the business owner and not by patron tips and believe that going to a world cup match to watch your country play your favorite sport is no worse than shopping at a big box store or paying your landlord.
It’s a big world mate and I can’t always be aware of every shitty thing going on at all times. Not only for logistical reasons, but also for mental health reasons.
I didn’t state that you must know everything, but you can’t claim to be aware of social issues if you’re willfully ignorant.
I don’t think the definitive no one is true. While a lot of them couldn’t care less. I’m sure there are some that do.
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Honestly, there’s nothing funny about any of this.
There was nothing funny about joking about glassing the middle east or invading europe, but here we are.
Yeah, like I said, “any of this” includes that. Watching the US becoming the Nazis is not entertainment when you know it means people will suffer, not just the people you think should suffer.
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Local sportsball leagues? Sure.
National televised sportsball? Just a vehicle for gambling and societal division.
Sportsball is just a war surrogate anyway.
- Company refuses pay worker enough. Expects tips to cover the gap.
- World Cup visitors refuse to tip. Says company should pay more.
- Worker gets f*cked over from both ends.
- Company still gets their money so they going give a f*ck.
- World Cup visitors get to feel self-righteous.
- Worker is still f*cked over, can’t pay their rent or buy groceries.
Seems like you’re just being cheap assholes to me. A couple idioms come to mind:
- two wrongs don’t make a right.
- when in Rome, do as the Romans do.
As much as I hate tipping (I also don’t get paid extra money for simply doing my fucking job), it is different in third world countries like the USA (a large country in north america, close to Canada and Mexico), which lacks fundamental human rights and a social security system. There, waiters in restaurants usually need tips for earning a living wage as restaurant owners do not or barely pay them. Therefore, tipping is not only polite but also necessary to not additionally punish workers for a system they are barely responsible for. Let’s hope that civilised countries start development projects in the USA in order to improve the system and living conditions of these people.
Political change is difficult as the USA is stuck in a quasi-democratic two-party system that is currently developing towards a dictatorship. But maybe through enough time and effort we can help this country and it’s people to get on a better track.
America has entered the smug European fucking over the locals phase of being a third world country
There’s lots to unpack here.
- In at least the west coast states, tipped workers do not make a lower wage.
- I’m not aware of any successful restaurants in the U.S. who have higher prices eliminating tipping and pay their staff a salary. Every instance I’ve seen of this fails.
- Servers make more money under a tipping culture over a set wage. They’d rather have tipping.
I’m not defending tipping as the way it should be, only that this is the way it is. Any one coming over to the US and not tipping to “make a statement” isn’t hurting the restaurants, they’re hurting the workers. And while we rightly expect US tourists to respect the customs of countries to which they travel, we should also expect the same of tourists to the US, at least those customs that affect the workers.
These tourists will “make a statement” for these couple of weeks, giving business/money to the restaurants but none to the staff, then leave and nothing will have changed except the bank account balances of the staff. If they wanted to make a statement, they’d seek out restaurants which already more closely aligned with their position.
Fun fact: These states require tippable workers to be paid the full minimum wage:
- Alaska
- California
- Guam
- Minnesota
- Nevada
- Oregon
Source: Department of Labor - Minimum Wages for Tipped Employees
If you don’t like the tip economy, then don’t participate in it by avoiding restaurants that underpay their employees. But don’t take it out on the employee, they’re already the victim, and the restaurant owner doesn’t care about your protest.
If anything, tip your server in cash, then run out on the bill.
The law says: nope.
Change your laws. Stop whining. Servers voted to keep the tip system because they make bank. Don’t complain.
People who are over worked and underpaid were convinced their employer couldn’t be trusted to pay them a proper wage isn’t the successful argument you think it is
? What
I don’t see how is Europeans stiffing you on a tip is immoral
You guys are seriously confused if you think you can guilt trip people into believing they are in the wrong. I had a long discussion on this exact topic before and really no arguments were presented to prove otherwise so come on let’s go for round two
I say: it is wrong to expect people from a completely opposite mindset, culture and background to know that slavery should be supported with their contributions. I think it’s fucked up you guys can only whine about a few missed dollars when there is so much going on that is affecting our lives over here that you idiots had a direct influence on. Let talk oil prices and ram prices, you think I would blaim you personally for that too? I think it’s time to do that even if I know it’s morally wrong. Because, in the words of Louis Rossman: I will hold you to the standards you hold me.
So tell me again how my argument is not that good. Fuck you.
Traveling to a fascist occupied country stiffing low wage workers while telling them to get a better job. You can’t be serious.
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
Yes I am. Go to the Capitol en masse instead of meekly accepting your fates you COWARDS
a few missed dollars here can be the difference between rent and homelessness. and i assure you things are getting increasingly brutal for anyone in this country who needs a home, food, medical care.
a random server at the chain restaurant (patronized by people privileged enough to travel internationally to see sports games!) is NOT responsible for the strait of hormuz or the AI bubble!
Then how is one missed tip responsible for homelessness and not your own voting choices
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
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https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about your own?
Ugly European
Nazi lover
https://sh.itjust.works/post/62495507
What about that?
Or this comment chain on this exact topic https://sh.itjust.works/post/62128604
Or even better, something that is just typical of you fucks, a NYpost piece is triggering this discussion:
Whereas, and don’t mind me laughing at your ignorance, it turns out that:
https://www.kansascity.com/news/local/article316182333.html
Shout-out to w3dd1e@lemmy.zip for commenting the following AS ONE OF YOUR OWN BUT WITH A FUNCTIONING BRAIN:
”The cash registers are ringing, the beer is flowing and the tables are full.
I live in KC. The restaurants are not full. I’ve seen article after article about how lodging reservations were low before the tournament and now that it’s started, no one is filling restaurants."
“change your laws” you say to the below minimum wage worker as you don’t pay for the service you received. I don’t remember voting to rely on the generosity of assholes to pay my rent. Server’s in most restaurants barely scrape by, it’s incredibly rare for them to “make bank”. And before you say “work somewhere else” take a look at the current job market and see who’s actually hiring.
Correct. Not every server is a bartender in a local place that gets a tip-out on top of their tips from reasonable people. Some are servers in a chain restaurants that serve the least grateful, understanding, and intelligent people around. I mean, I had a lady complain that her medium steak had pink in it. It’s not the server’s fault if the customer is a moron.
you think you’re the only country with an underprivileged class that had to fight for themselves? (or at least want to… americans don’t even get to the “wanting to” stage)
Get a proper job? Leave? Demand fair compensation by including gratuity in the sales price instead of allowing modern day slavery? Complacency with a system like that is damning
The thing is, lots of tipped workers also fight being paid a living wage because they make way more money off tips than they otherwise would at a job with similar qualifications. If a server is only working 6 tables in an hour and averages only 5 dollars a table in tips, that’s $30 an hour. There’s no way that if tips were eliminated that restaurants would bump salaries that much.
They could still collect tips, nobody is stopping that. They would just have to be paid a normal minimum wage as well. There is no reason that restaurant owners should be given the only exception in paying a minimum wage. Why should they be the only industry that forces the customer to directly pay their wages?
Maybe we should do that with cops, or politicians. They get $2 an hour, and then get tips FROM THE CITIZENS, when they do their jobs correctly, and the Citizens are moved to show their appreciation. I suspect we’d see cops and politicians behave much better.
The only correct take. Everything else is virtue signalling.
Don’t hurt fellow workers unless you’re a capitalist.
Will never happen. All this will do is fuck service workers over.
Unfortunately righteous causes don’t pay the bills.
Aint no one cares about rightenouness when it comes to Jake and Emelie behind the counter at McDonalds, so what makes servers special?
Because i highly doubt they’re being tipped
In the United States, servers are paid less than McDonalds employees.
Europeans should educate themselves more if they want to get involved in our broken, shitty systems.
The Resturants are required to pay a minimum wage. UNLESS, the tips they recieve brings them above minimum.
So no. They’re not paid less. At worst. They both make minimum wage. Americans should educate themselves on their own shitty system
Technically correct (over a pay period though) but this is how you get fired as a server.
You’re a pos, though.
Says the one not even tipping his minimum wage fastfood workers, why do you hate them?
Expectations is the main difference. Servers are expected much more than Jake and Emelie. Very few people go to a full service restaurant and are ok receiving the same service they do at McDonald’s. That’s understandable, the price between both is significant but I do think if full service servers were only expected to provide the same level of service and expertise as Jake and Emelie they’d be like, “fuck yeah!” Where are as the opposite wouldn’t be welcome without a raise by Jake and Emelie. I feel it’s important to consider this to further the discussion otherwise we’re no better than current Reddit.
What in the world are you talking about? And what makes you think anything you said is even remotely relevant?
No… people dont go to a resturant and expect McDonalds level of service. They’re also not going to pay McDonald prices nor expect to recieve McDonald food quality (or lack there of).
My expectation of atmosphere, food, and service is directly tied to the advertised price of the food.
Regardless. I’m not paying my garbagetruck driver twice. And they quite frankly performs a much more important service to me than any waiter ever could.
I pay my taxes. And they’re paid from that. Just like i pay for my food, and would expect my waiter/chef/manager to get paid from that.
As of your last note. Please just stop… people make up Lemmy, people make up Reddit, and people are always a bunch of bastards. No one is better than the other.
Even when the righteous cause is a living wage? 🤔
But it doesn’t. This simply takes money from the servers.
Subsidizing business owners isn’t good for the workers
So you’re boycotting the business or you’re just not tipping the server?
Boycott
All not tipping does in this scenario is make sure the worker gets less take home and the owner still gets their share.
Yeah, not paying a tip cause you think the worker deserves a living wage definitely fucks the worker over, rather than the business. So there might be righteous anger, but it’s directed at the one you’re trying to help.
Maybe tip workers shouldn’t have been fighting for tax less tips, and should have fought for a real wage?
I know so many tipped workers who fight to be able to guilt customers into paying their bills instead of just having a real wage. And they’re going to find out that people aren’t going to keep paying more and more guilt money to servers. I remember when 15% was the norm, and now people are saying it’s 20, and fuck that.
It will sound brutal, but they are stupid to living with this system. Imagine all costumer facing jobs to be depended by tips. Like tech support, cashiers, shop assistants, baristas, and every worker you meet as a consumer.
Tips was about extra for elegance and nice service. I know living wages are shit, and that’s why it became a norm all over the world. But it is something extra, so the worker can have pleasure, not to get through life.
For servers in the US specifically it’s not true that it’s something extra, it’s become an expected part of their compensation structure. They have a special, lower minimum wage they’re allowed to be paid. (If tips don’t cover the difference between that and minimum wage, they still have to be paid minimum wage.)
Sorry, on this parenthetical, for non-Americans, can you clarify?
Servers are paid less than minimum wage, but if they don’t get tips enough to cover the delta, they are paid minimum wage?
So does it go to the employer to cover your wage, are tips reported for tax, etc? Are there any repercussions if a server is consistently not tipped? Can they fire you?
It varies by state, some do require servers to be paid minimum wage and don’t have this weird exception. The ones day do allow them to be paid something like $2 an hour instead of $7.25 (I forget the exact numbers). Then if they don’t make enough in tips so their “effective” hourly pay for the day is minimum wage, then the employer had to cover the difference.
Tips are reported as taxable income. I’m sure many servers take cash tips and don’t, but that’s between them and the IRS. Assuming everyone is behaving, yes, tips are taxable income just like “normal” income. (Even income from illegal activities is considered taxable.)
Repercussions for not getting tips? Maybe. I haven’t been a server. I’m sure it can happen, I’m not sure how often it does. As for can they fire you? Yeah, most likely. Every state but one has what’s called “at will employment” which gives workers the “benefit” (lol) of being able to quit whenever, but also let’s employers fire you for any reason (apart from a very small number of things like discrimination).
Basically, say you work one hour. Minimum wage is $7.25. The server minimum is $2. You make $3 in tips. Your employer would need to cover the additional $2.25.
A lot of this is effectively moot since minimum wage has stagnated so far behind inflation. I think a lot of places are already offering above minimum wage for their lowest paid workers, but I’m not sure if that includes servers.
As a past server, it’s incredibly easy to make that threshold. But it’s also based on an average per pay period. If a server has a giant party that tips $30, and nothing else in a 6 hour period, it’s still 2.13 for those 6 hours. And any corporate restaurant hates paying servers. Servers would be fired if they consistently needed pay (not often) or worked overtime (decently often, because then corporations would need to pay $9something an hour)
It’s not extra here. It’s expected unless they do a really bad job. I don’t care how the rest of the world is. This is how it works here. Don’t come to our country and shit on our culture and expect us to thank you. What the fuck is wrong with you people?
Only in the short term
Unfortunately, most servers are in the class of workers whose economic activity exists entirely in the short term. Without proper organization and unity in action, short term disruptions could have fatal implications.
They should organize
Nice “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” impression. What’s next, the homeless should just stop being homeless?
You’re right! Organization is impossible, so workers should keep being exploited.
Nah, it’s better to guilt customers into paying your bills, for some reason.
Tip your servers and bartenders or go to McDonald’s. Don’t be rude while you’re a guest.
If you can’t tip, don’t go to the restaurant or bar. Those workers depend on their tips. And the restaurant or bar isn’t just gonna make up the difference for the server just because you decided not to tip.
Those Europeans are being dicks.
I appreciate america-dunking as much as everyone but are we really going to pretend that there is no exploitation in the service industry in Europe?
EDIT: PS, if you want to actually do something beyond smugly complaining, put your money where your mouth is:
- https://secure.actblue.com/donate/unite-here / https://unitehere.org/
- https://sbworkersunited.org/ upper right, button for donation: https://www.paypal.com/ncp/payment/5AFGEN89WKKCN
This is hilarious. If you thought the American capitalists were greedy, pig headed assholes who smugly step on anyone they perceive to be under them while acting like they are helping them, here come the European football fans.
This is a race to the bottom of capitalist assholes trying to get one back on America by further exploiting their proles.
What a gross thing to be proud of!
