A few poems written in Sumerian times, around 2100 BCE, have this starting line or similar (in those far remote times, in those days when heaven and earth were created…). The instructions of Shuruppak, Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the Netherworld (not actually part of the compiled Epic), Enki and Ninmah, the Flood part of the Gilgamesh Epic…
No, those texts are about the time of the building of their own cities and civilization. The older big Sumerian cities are dated back between like 6000 and 3000 BCE (with Eridu around 5500 BCE). That’s what the faraway days are.
The instructions of Shuruppak, the oldest known example of that line, is dated about 2600 BCE give or take, and it’s talking about the city of Shuruppak and a king teaching his son Ziusudra. Ziusudra is later named as the Flood survivor in the Gilgamesh texts starting 2100 BCE, and the Flood in question is believed to point to one particular flood that destroyed Shuruppak around 2900 BCE (it got better).
The Sumerians of the Ur III period who wrote those texts (at least put them in writing from a probable older oral tradition) perfectly knew their civilization was old AF, more than a thousand years. The use of Ziusudra / Utnapishtim in the Flood narrative of Gilgamesh almost definitely points to the Instructions of Shuruppak, a text the later Sumerians and Babylonians also made copies of, being the specific “wisdom from the time before the Flood” that Gilgamesh brings back from meeting the guy. Like, they’re saying Gilgamesh is the reason they all got copies of what Ziusudra’s dad told him about how to make a city right - because Ziusudra repeated to Gilgamesh what his dad taught him (just before his city was wiped by the gods). It’s also probably an explanation on why that specific line, “in those days, in those faraway days”, is repeated in Gilgamesh, because it’s in the Instructions. The “death of Gilgamesh” poem goes like this
you reached Zi-ud-sura in his dwelling place. Having brought down to the Land the divine powers of Sumer, which at that time were forgotten forever, the orders, and the rituals
And as a bonus, the Shuruppak flood would be around 2900, Gilgamesh would have lived around 2700, and the oldest copy of the Instructions is from around 2600, so even that timeline matches in their reconstruction if we imagine they figured that out correctly (or more realistically, Shuruppak was rebuilt after the flood destroyed it and that’s when they wrote it themselves).
Proto Indo Europeans have no connection to them, no genetic, geographical, or cultural connection. They are probably a bit later than the older Sumerian cities, even.
Could “It’s also probably an explanation on why that specific line, “in those days, in those faraway days”, is repeated in Gilgamesh” also be a form of thought rhyme?
Sure, using the same lines multiple times makes it easier to remember, and the line is found in more than one text. I just mean there’s a pattern of coincidences, and Gilgamesh bringing back wisdom from “before the Flood” that was lost from the same person that received those instructions is a big one. It’s surely somewhere between “the same people wrote both texts and simply reused similar lines between them for style” and “multiple texts reference each other like they’re building a big ancient MCU where you need to watch the backlog of 20 previous movies to fully understand the last Avengers: Gilgameshday”.
Because they totally did that a lot. Poems pick up straight from the end of other poems. Hell, specifically for the Sumerian ones, they didn’t know how to start a story so a lot of them begin with: " so you know, the wind god split the mountain of heaven and earth, that was cool. Anyway, Enmerkar once…" and another text starts with “after heaven and earth were separated, Kur abducted Inanna. So anyway, here’s Lugalbanda’s story…” followed by “Kur is now defeated so it’s all good. Now, about the Anzu bird…” and we have a near complete Sumerian Genesis likethat.
The oldest recorded song in history starts with “in those ancient times”. Tale of Gilgamesh IIRC
Myths always take place back a long time ago.
Oddly enough it was actually a mistranslated copy of Jerusalem as the rest of the stone said “walk upon England’s mountain green”
A few poems written in Sumerian times, around 2100 BCE, have this starting line or similar (in those far remote times, in those days when heaven and earth were created…). The instructions of Shuruppak, Gilgamesh, Enkidu and the Netherworld (not actually part of the compiled Epic), Enki and Ninmah, the Flood part of the Gilgamesh Epic…
I wonder if they were referring to the protoindoeuropeans, who just slowly wandered the earth spreading their language
No, those texts are about the time of the building of their own cities and civilization. The older big Sumerian cities are dated back between like 6000 and 3000 BCE (with Eridu around 5500 BCE). That’s what the faraway days are.
The instructions of Shuruppak, the oldest known example of that line, is dated about 2600 BCE give or take, and it’s talking about the city of Shuruppak and a king teaching his son Ziusudra. Ziusudra is later named as the Flood survivor in the Gilgamesh texts starting 2100 BCE, and the Flood in question is believed to point to one particular flood that destroyed Shuruppak around 2900 BCE (it got better).
The Sumerians of the Ur III period who wrote those texts (at least put them in writing from a probable older oral tradition) perfectly knew their civilization was old AF, more than a thousand years. The use of Ziusudra / Utnapishtim in the Flood narrative of Gilgamesh almost definitely points to the Instructions of Shuruppak, a text the later Sumerians and Babylonians also made copies of, being the specific “wisdom from the time before the Flood” that Gilgamesh brings back from meeting the guy. Like, they’re saying Gilgamesh is the reason they all got copies of what Ziusudra’s dad told him about how to make a city right - because Ziusudra repeated to Gilgamesh what his dad taught him (just before his city was wiped by the gods). It’s also probably an explanation on why that specific line, “in those days, in those faraway days”, is repeated in Gilgamesh, because it’s in the Instructions. The “death of Gilgamesh” poem goes like this
And as a bonus, the Shuruppak flood would be around 2900, Gilgamesh would have lived around 2700, and the oldest copy of the Instructions is from around 2600, so even that timeline matches in their reconstruction if we imagine they figured that out correctly (or more realistically, Shuruppak was rebuilt after the flood destroyed it and that’s when they wrote it themselves).
Proto Indo Europeans have no connection to them, no genetic, geographical, or cultural connection. They are probably a bit later than the older Sumerian cities, even.
Could “It’s also probably an explanation on why that specific line, “in those days, in those faraway days”, is repeated in Gilgamesh” also be a form of thought rhyme?
Sure, using the same lines multiple times makes it easier to remember, and the line is found in more than one text. I just mean there’s a pattern of coincidences, and Gilgamesh bringing back wisdom from “before the Flood” that was lost from the same person that received those instructions is a big one. It’s surely somewhere between “the same people wrote both texts and simply reused similar lines between them for style” and “multiple texts reference each other like they’re building a big ancient MCU where you need to watch the backlog of 20 previous movies to fully understand the last Avengers: Gilgameshday”.
Because they totally did that a lot. Poems pick up straight from the end of other poems. Hell, specifically for the Sumerian ones, they didn’t know how to start a story so a lot of them begin with: " so you know, the wind god split the mountain of heaven and earth, that was cool. Anyway, Enmerkar once…" and another text starts with “after heaven and earth were separated, Kur abducted Inanna. So anyway, here’s Lugalbanda’s story…” followed by “Kur is now defeated so it’s all good. Now, about the Anzu bird…” and we have a near complete Sumerian Genesis likethat.
While would Akkadian or semite myths speak about a people that not only isn’t theirs, but also unknown?