Hey Mr President! I represent evangelicals, televangelists and scientology like Kenneth Copeland, Joel Osteen, David Miscavige, etc.
We collectively call you out as a raping pedophile piece of shit living specimen who wouldn’t dare come after our tax-free status. FUCK YOU!
He will only attack orgs that are against him. This will lead to the loss of many different kinds of 501©(3) organizations with good missions and actions. This is a continuation of dismantling current institutions, and silencing dissent.
Land of the free, home of the brave etc.
I share Thomas Cromwell’s views on churches so please make this happen.
I share Thomas Paine’s views. They’re a business that should be taxed like any other.
Hey Mormons!!! What do you think of Trump?
During the last Presidential election, Utah’s numbers did not shift right. Historically Mormon’s vote as a block.
Emigration from other states is changing voting behavior in Utah with only 50% of the current population being LDS. Emigration might even be moving the state rightward since right radicals leave states like California for Republican states like Utah or Idaho.
A problem Mormon’s fail to understand is that they are not seen as Christian by Evangelicals. Thereby when religious purges come, Mormon’s are on the menu.
please do, treasonous pedo rapist, please do. sew some division amongst your band of idiots
The fundies would be perfectly happy to see other Christian denominations persecuted. It won’t sow any division at all.
He did similar to universities, so why not?
As we predicted! I’m a priest in the Episcopal Church and at our recent clergy conference we were made aware of a letter being issued by a large number of our bishops, to be published in one of the big papers, denouncing ICE (it was distributed to us this past Saturday, but I have no idea if it’s shown up in one of the papers or not). We discussed the possibility of Trump getting mad and revoking our tax exempt status because of it. Dude is quite predictable lol.
I hope you all spite this evil bastard and not give in
Time to see how hypocritical these churches are.
Their love of money will endure…
Hmm, well seems it’s time to find out if prayer works, eh? Ask your sky goblin nicely!
Honestly, churches should have always stayed the fuck out of politics or lose their tax exempt status. Of course, that rule does not apply to the weepy Republicans, because the rules never do. They cry about “religious freedom”, but want their cake and eat it, too, of course: the most radically right wing churches can say whatever the hell they want regarding telling their people how to vote and we all get to fund it, effectively.
Having the cake and eating it too is not an option for liberal churches, though.
Honestly, churches should have always stayed the fuck out of politics or lose their tax exempt status.
Churches should never have had tax exempt status.
honestly im not sure anything should have. You can deduct expenses so theoretically non for profits should not pay much anyway.
they’d still have to pay various payroll taxes and things, and they still buy things: tax exemption in australia for example means you neither have to charge GST (our version of VAT) to customers, and you get to claim it back from any purchases you make
yeah but im not sure that is a bad thing. They would also pay property tax. In the us sales and property tax mostly pay for real world community things that need to be done and are shared resources. Infrastructure and services basically. I don’t see why a non for profit should not pay into that the same as for profits. I don’t think charities will disapear if they have to deal with the same rules every individual has to and if they do they likely were scams or something.
i’m not a member of a church, i’m very atheist, but also i kinda put churches around the same place as sports clubs… they’re largely non-profit entities that exist for the benefit of members… kinda like a co-op too
i think given that - ie their mission isn’t based around making money, but providing free services - it’s fair to put them on the same level as other membership-based orgs
all of these orgs have a “not for me” crowd, but just because it’s not for you doesn’t mean that they don’t provide services to their members in the same way that sports clubs, maker spaces, car clubs, youth clubs, etc all provide things and shouldn’t be taxed in addition to the income tax that their members already pay
I might be missing your your point buy yeah as I said all not for profits so I indeed would like them all treated the same. regardless of church or club. I don’t see why a club shouldn’t pay taxes in addition to the tax their members pay when I pay tax in addition to my income tax for all the goods and services I use myself. I mean why can’t I be a club of one and get the benefits. Its all not for profit in the same way to me.
Unless they can show they are providing beneficial services to the entire community they should not get it. So a church that only serves their parishioners would be a no, but one that runs a food bank open to the community would be able to get it.
Any political advocacy along the lines of telling people who they should vote for should be a permanent revocation of nonprofit status.
I’m not opposed to that, but I don’t see any reason to bring the word “church” into it. I think they should be treated like any other club of people, and that may well include tax exemptions for community work.
well, it’s probably a similar thing to a 501c7: membership organisations like sports clubs
Agreed. It’s not so much a matter of changing church tax code, but changing 501c3 tax codes in general and having enough IRS agents to properly keep up.
yall already have 501c7 which is membership organisations like sports clubs
I’m all for ending the tax exemption for cults but using it as leverage not to have people speak out against you? Such a DICKtator move.
All religions need to be taxed like the businesses they are.
The problem with this is that there’s no profit to tax.
I hate religion as much as the next guy but taxing a non-profit charity is nonsensical.
What you actually want is:
- To discontinue any tax concessions for employees of the church.
- Ensure benefits that employees receive are taxed.
- Restrict religious organisations from conducting business-like activities: if they have a cafe then its profit should be taxed
Mega-churches make massive profits.
You mean massive cash surpluses.
All that cash is legally required to be spent in the course of the churches objectives, which in almost all cases will be the furtherance of religion.
That means, the minister is restricted from using that money for personal things like holidays or boats or whatever.
Yes, mega churches provide celebrity ministers a lot of perks. Thats why I said this area needs stronger restrictions.
That means, the minister is restricted from using that money for personal things like holidays or boats or whatever.
I assume the church can pay the minister a salary…are there restrictions on that salary?
Preachers and all other church staff members have to pay income taxes.
There is an interest-free housing stipend for preachers that works similar to an FSA (use it or lose it annually). Some military service members get a similar stipend if they live off-base for the same reason. Many preachers and service members are itenerant and may be reassigned to a different area at any time. Purchsing a house isn’trealistic if you don’tknownwhere you’ll live in 6 months, so they can’t take advantage of tax breaks like the home interest mortgage deduction. Preachers who are provided free housing (parsonage) can’t take advantage of the tax-free stipend because they don’t pay for housing.
My thought on that particular tax break isn’t to close it but to expand it to everyone who rents.
Someone knows their clergy tax code! I agree with your idea of expansion. That’s something I’d not considered and think it makes a lot of sense.
I used to be clergy. Now I work in government.
So I feel like I’m a decent authority on how the separation of church and state makes both institutions better.
Depends on jurisdiction.
It can be taxed like any other salary. Sometimes they enjoy some tax concessions.
The point I was trying to make is that those churches that are bringing in big money may have a way to funnel that money to the minister - just make it his or her salary. Add bonuses. Sure the minister probably has to pay taxes on the income, but so what, they’re still making a lot more than most people (including members of their own church).
My comment is about taxing churches.
And unfortunately those would not be the ones targeted.
This is categorically untrue. Hiding profits doesn’t mean they don’t have them. That’s just fraud. The mormon church, for example, has trillions invested.
Same for Scientology.
Literally created as a tax dodge for L. Ron Hubbard.
This is demonstrably untrue. Swimming in literal profit pools like Scrudge McDuck is life.
No profit? They literally tell their congregation to give them 10-20% of their earnings.
Thats income, not profit.
By definition, its all spent in the furtherance of the club / churches objectives.
If you and I form a dinner club and every week we chip in $50 and go out for dinner, the club has no “profit” we’re just sharing the cost of our hobby.
Sure, but our dinner club isn’t selling anything, while a church is.
Sure it is, our dinner club is selling great vibes.
That’s pretty similar to how it is.
I used to be a preacher. I paid taxes. Any facility space or property we rented to commercial companies (we had a psychologist who used a portion of our space during the week) was taxed.
The only real break we got versus other charities was that clergy can get a tax-freee home/apartment rental stipend if they aren’t provided a personage. The idea there was that, for itenerant clergy, purchasing a home isn’t realistic because they don’t know where they’ll live in a year. They can’t take advantage of things like a mortgage interest deduction.
But my solution there is to open up tax exemption for all rent payers and to tax the living shit out of landlords to make them sell and open up housing inventory.
I said this type of thing should be curtailed. Thats not the same as teaching churches because theyre like a business.
He is correct that churches shouldn’t be exempt from taxes, just not for his reasons. They are tax shelters for political tools, and should be made into taxed businesses if they insist on being money making machines.
The churches that would call him out are likely the same few that actually do something to deserve their tax exempt status, like feeding the homeless.
No churches deserve tax exempt status. Why the hell should we rely on their kindness to feed the homeless when we can tax them and ensure the poor are fed?
I always love the assumption that the money taxed on churches will go and do the work that churches would do and not build bombs. My parishioners are already taxed to help kill people, I really don’t need their faithful contributions to be taxed again so that the US can kill more people. Maybe fix the way taxes are spent and I’ll support taxing my church. But for now, I really don’t want to see the money people give out of their sense of faithfulness to be used to pay for an extra bullet that’s going to kill someone standing in ICE’s way.
My congregation is pretty small. I know the assumption is huge megachurches and all that (and yeah, maybe those folks should be taxed because they use the religious exemptions as a loophole for some really unsavory stuff). But the 40-ish people that give what they do do so to help in what little ways they can.
Maybe fix the way taxes are spent and I’ll support
not the way taxes work mate
don’t want to see the money people give out of their sense of faithfulness to be used to pay for
why does faith give them an exemption from participation in civilised society?
i’d love for tickets to various pride events not to be taxed, but they are… so why do i pay tax for participating in my culture and “faith” is exempt?
taxes largely only apply to profits, so if you’re being an actual charitable organisation, you won’t have too many profits and thus not a large tax burden… right?
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By that logic, charities should not be tax exempt either. I agree that charity isn’t the ideal solution to poverty, hunger, homelessness, etc. and we should be funding social welfare to solve those problems, but in the meantime people who are working to alleviate these issues should not be tax burdened. I don’t like the religious exemption, but the 501©(3) exemption as a whole is a good thing.
There’s an argument to be made that charities and other 501c3 organizations both entrench capitalism and normalize its failures to care for marginalized people, and/or that they also mostly exist to provide the wealthy with tax breaks through which they can fund pet projects, bypassing any democratic processes and ignoring what society actually needs.
I agree, but I still think that as long as charities exist they should be tax exempt. I look at it similarly to USAID, which was a way for the US empire to project soft power, but also saved and improved lives. Ending 501c3 tax exempt status would be a disaster in the same way that the current administration ending USAID was. Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Ending it suddenly without a replacement would be a catastrophe, no doubt about it. That doesn’t mean they deserve tax exempt status. The majority of charities are pretty decent and get a good portion of their donations to people in need but there are also charities that are basically a way for the wealthy to avoid taxes. I think the government will better represent the will of the people (in normal times), have lower overhead, work faster, and close the loopholes. I’d also be satisfied with closing the loopholes that allow people to take advantage and avoid paying taxes. Donating a few million to the charity you own to get a tax break, while your nephew runs the charity taking a fat check, and makes the area you live nicer; improving your real estate values should not be a thing.
You say this but in many communities churches are the only option or the primary option because government has failed its populace.
When I worked with the homeless shelters would fill immediately, like within an hour of opening doors, and they would kick you out at 7am so you’d have to come back that evening and hope you make it. Closed during the day because of no funding for staffing. but churches would have much more space, would be open during the day, would have hot food, etc.
The funding for the homeless is nothing and gets cut year after year. In my state it’s somewhat decent too, in the more conservative states my understanding is that it can be more dire.
My conspiracy theory is that this is intentional: homeless services, rehab services, etc get minimal funding that is consistently slashed to funnel people into churches when they’re most vulnerable which allows them to be indoctrinated more easily. I worked with many people who either became very religious or if they were already religious became far more conservative and evangelical. Guess who also tended to vote against their own interests based on wedge issues like abortion and lgbt rights once they got back on their feet?
At the same time liberals don’t actually want to fund mental health services. They are viciously anti taxes and viciously anti homeless. Look at California: when programs start that are positive to improve the lives of homeless and start to break the cycle the NIMBYs come out in full force
Kenneth Copeland
Trump is evil, but this man remains the only person I’ve seen I’m convinced is an actual demon. Video of him sets off my fight or flight response so hard.
True. He does make people believe in spiritual things. Haunting, evil, possessed things.
Do it, coward
He just might accidentally do one good thing.
