The US Department of Agriculture has spent the past week notifying people that the country is (allegedly) overrun by individuals who are fraudulently claiming SNAP benefits, while (allegedly) driving luxury vehicles.
“In just ONE state, 14,000 individuals receiving SNAP benefits were driving LUXURY VEHICLES!” Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins posted on X last week. The official USDA account made similar claims, which were then amplified by figures like Senator Ted Cruz and Senator Rand Paul.
Those numbers are questionable at best. For one thing, the report they come from doesn’t name the state where thousands of people are allegedly buying Ferraris while using government money to buy food. For another, that report doesn’t include any explanation of its methodology.
I’d rather a hundred people get benefits they “don’t need” than have one person go without the support they require.
Not that it’s even happening, but even if it were I really wouldn’t care even a little bit. And furthermore, food stamp benefits are pathetic in the US.
I remember some Republican chud or another saying they’d rather have innocent people imprisoned than let a single criminal walk free. Absolutely cannot fathom that mindset. Completely ghoulish.
I mean i can imagine it, it’s just patently anti-American. Benjamin Franklin is widely quoted as saying “I’d rather let 100 guilty persons go, than imprison one innocent person.”
No, that was William Blackstone. Maybe Ben Franklin also quoted it, but he’s not the one who was famous for it.
I feel like if someone quotes another person and then that quote becomes associated with them more thoroughly it would count as famously said. Doesn’t stop the first person from being a thing just a matter of having less fame or relevance.
In principle, maybe, but I’m fairly well-read and I have literally never heard of that quote being attributed to Ben Franklin until the earlier comment so I don’t think that’s the case here.
Could be down to a bias of what you are exposed to, which can heavily influence what you hear. Anyways I think it was in one of his letters but I can’t quite remember cause I just woke up.
Apparently you’re right: the other reply cites the letter.
But still, Ben Franklin is famous for a ton of stuff, including actual published works full of quotable aphorisms like Poor Richard’s Almanack (as opposed to some random private letter that was only published after-the-fact). Meanwhile, Blackstone is remembered mainly just for Commentaries on the Laws of England, of which the Blackstone’s Ratio quote is part. Can’t we let poor old Mr. Blackstone have this one thing?!
You’re not fairly well-read enough i guess then: https://www.cato.org/policing-in-america/chapter-4/blackstones-ratio#_ftn76
Blackstone said ten, Franklin restated it as 100
Guess who said they’re fine having legal Hispanic citizens abducted from their homes and thrown in
SSICE camps if it means they’re actually getting some illegal immigrantsconcentration camps.
What they mean is innocent people who don’t look like them. The moment there’d be any danger of them being locked up, they’d fine-tune their opinion to find a reason why it doesn’t apply to their case.
They honestly waste more resources on gatekeeping and means testing than they would ever save, and it’d LITERALLY cost less to just provide the same baseline benefits to everyone
Yeah, why aren’t we talking about all the fraud committed by billionaire oligarchs and trump and his inner circle?
When you influence or you are the people who write the rules, is not fraud, it’s smart investing
Like the largest Medicaid fraudster in history currently serving in Congress?
Like maybe 25 years back I remember a viral video of someone in Cali or something buying a lobster with his food stamps and everyone was freaking out. I dont know much of the american food stamps system but I’m pretty sure just blew his budget or something. Really its just proved some idiot was doing dumb stuff for likes before TikTok.
Generally, any food product is going to be eligible. They give you a bank card that has your monthly funds on it. Prepared products such as from the delicatessen, alcohol, and cigarettes will be blocked but there’s not much else to stop someone from letting their benefits add up and then wasting them on something like lobster.
You don’t want to make this entire thing onerous for everyone, so there will be some activity like this occassionally. It’s not even something that would appear outside the statistical noise.
I was on SNAP several years ago. We saved a small bit of the relatively meager amount every month for like 6 months, then had a really nice BBQ for my kids bday. In a vacuum, I’m sure someone would have lost their shit watching me spend like $150 on steaks and burgers and sides using my SNAP card.
The only reason thats any different than just saving your own regular money for it and blowing that on the exact same thing is the optics.
Like if you get the bennies, its not like people know that every single time you buy stuff, only when you use that specific payment method
My ex and I were on food stamps at one point so I hope that my message didn’t come across as spam on those who use them. I was trying to explain to who I thought was a non US person who was not familiar with how it works.
Oh, no, I didn’t think that at all! I was just adding my own story to the mix.
Yeah thats really what I wanted know. Cheers.
I think its really cool it rolls over like that. My old boss losses his crap if he sees the old save on food to splurge later. “If the peasants can survive on less than they should” mentality. Bloke also said ppl should feel more shame on the system and the cards was bypassing that shame. Can really feel the privilege from that guy. Ugh
Fuck it. I’d rather give free meals to everyone than pay one fucking penny towards the missiles we hurled into an elementary school. People gotta get their fucking priorities straight.
Enjoy that BBQ, I hope you have long lasting happy and guilt-free memories about that day. Money well spent in my mind.
As a taxpayer, I’m glad you were able to do that. The poor deserve more than the bare minimum
Yeah, nobody commits that level of petty fraud if their life is going well.
If you want food stamps badly enough to jump through the hoops required, then that should qualify you by default.
This is literally just the '80s “welfare queen” lie.
The same people who believed that in their 20s when Reagan said it are now in their late 60s and early 70s. You can see the problem.
We need to get rid of means testing. The largest money line for any government programs is the army of people making sure Americans need the program. People that don’t need government programs usually don’t use them. So hiring someone to make sure a wealthy person doesn’t cash in $150 worth of food stamps.
luxury vehicles
What do you want to bet they’re talking about poorly maintained 15+ year old lexuses and 30+ year old bmws? Just kidding, it’s most likely entirely unfounded.
I’d go even further and say that they are classifying vehicles themselves as a luxury, not even the make or model.
The good old “oh you’re poor? How come you have a phone then?”
Yeah that argument is so ridiculous.
You can buy lightly used phones on Swappa for a large discount even when we are talking about flagship phones. There are also situations where someone could be poor but have enough credit to get a phone financed with monthly payments that they can afford.
There are pre paid MVNOs in the US where you can get unlimited talk, text, and on device data, that also includes unlimited hotspot at fairly decent speeds (plus there are ways of bypassing hotspot speed caps, TetherFuseNet is an example open source app) for less than 30$ a month taxes and fees included. For about 30$ a month or so plans exist with QCI priority that are the same priority as premium post paid plans. I have known people who have used their unlimited hotspot as their only internet at home.
Just because some of these people making these types of comments may have a high cell phone bill does not mean everyone else does.
I think it’s because a lot of people are like Mother Theresa. They’re of the belief that if you’re poor, you should suffer, because not doing so would be a moral failing. Being poor makes you a bad person.
Remember when Fox News got all worked up because poor people had a microwave? And a refrigerator???
In my state, if your apartment doesn’t include a fridge-freezer and cooktop-oven, it’s not considered habitable.
You want more than ONE door on your car?!?!
Then you get an Isetta and they’re going to complain that you have a BMW.
🤣 exactly.
They’re trying to bring back Welfare Queens. I’m sure almost everyone’s forgotten, but this was the kind of accusation that led to Welfare being viewed so negatively and eventually being renamed entirely.
Ironically, it’s middle-class suburban homeowners who are the real welfare queens. They may not get the actual government program called “welfare,” but they get so many other kinds of subsidies for their lifestyle that the stereotypical urban renter single mom is probably subsidizing them instead of the other way around!
I think Walmart takes the cake. They purposely dont give a lot of hours or benefits so their employees end up on SNAP who then use SNAP at Walmart.
The government is essentially paying their employees wages to then be spent at Walmart.
Yep. Another Reagan lie.
Dude, it seems everything the GOP claims lacks evidence.
Have you seen what the MAGAtards do when confronted by evidence? They say it’s all either fake news or AI. They’re a cult and cults don’t require evidence to maintain their beliefs.
It’s so depressing
My favorite term for this is “a post-truth society”.
Feels like a new dark age.
especially coming from the mouth of the most infamous one, cruz.
The “fraud” they’re talking about is Black people being allowed to access food.
I know someone on SNAP benefits. She drives a 25 year old Buick Lesabre with over 200,000 miles on it . Technically it’s a “luxury car,” which she got for $800.
Their stats are bullshit, spun in such a way as to churn up resentment towards the poorest , so the wealthiest can bilk more money from the middle.
I drove a '98 Lasabre for most of the 2010s. Absolutely loved it: parts were ready to find, could repair it myself at home, and the dashboard had so many weird sliders and knobs that it felt like piloting a TARDIS.
Anyone enjoying that kind of luxury should be starving to death. It’s just not fair for someone to have both a beautiful, faux-wood paneled dashboard and three meals per day.
A Buick LeSabre was my first car. It was the 1989 model. Red “velvet” interior. That thing was sexy af
Same, we called it the boat and referred to the backseat as the couch. It was defeated by a young sapling in a low-speed head-on collision unfortunately. I wish theyd make something like that again but its probably past its time.
“In just ONE state, 14,000 individuals receiving SNAP benefits were driving LUXURY VEHICLES!” Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins posted on X last week
It should be noted that in some states (most? No idea), the value of your car and house don’t count against your application for food stamps. Which makes perfect sense when you consider that you would have to be a fucking moron to sell your home or car to eat, since after you eat you either have nowhere to sleep or no way to get to work independently. A “high value” (read: not a shitcan) car can also be more dependable than a junker, may vary by brand of course.
Anyway, anyone who has ever wanted to police food stamps is going to hell.
Plus that person could be swimming in payments but needs the reliable car or safe house to do as you mentioned.
Watch they are going to fight to increase restrictions on SNAP benefit “handouts”, but a ton of rich people fraudulently took out COVID loans, actually bought cars, never paid them back, and there is legit evidence but they were never prosecuted.
The new slogan for America should be: Protect the fellow rich, beat the poor down into dust.
They don’t need fraud, they just change the laws or get courts to approve it.
plus all the TAX breaks they get from hiring people.
It also doesn’t define “LUXURY VEHICLE”
The banged up crossover SUV that came with CarPlay and OnStar so your insurance and the government can track your every move could be considered a LUXURY because CONNECTIVITY
Guys, poor people are forced to buy the only things we’ll sell to them. How come they never try not being poor? Lazy!
I have a 2008 Infiniti. It’s a luxury vehicle that I paid $5k for and runs like it’s been smoking cigarettes the past 20 years.
My uncle bought a Rolls Royce for $14k CDN. It’s a 1989 Rolls, but it’s still a “luxury” vehicle.
I’ve known several people with a habit of buying old Volvos. Probably a luxury car …… but like 20 years old
I got a call from the food bank thanking me for donating. She said the demand is shocking now. They don’t have enough. She was all “don’t worry we’re just calling to thank you, not to ask for more, just keeping you updated.” I shudder to think how much worse it will get by the time these gouls are through. I’ll keep donating while I can, I suggest everyone else do the same. Donating money goes the farthest because the banks have deals with supermarkets and stuff.
I would rather 5 people abuse it than 1 person go hungry, but maybe I’m just civilized?
Either way we should attempt to curtail abuse, but with credit+debit+tax returns we could effectively combat egregious cases of abuse.
Either way we should attempt to curtail abuse
Should we? Sometimes it seems like the bureaucracy needed to do that costs more than the “waste” it saves. Frankly, I’m inclined to just ditch the means-testing entirely, declare that it isn’t “wrong” for people who aren’t poor to also use it, and (as you alluded to) make it up on the back end via income taxes.
this could also massively boost overall public health because if everyone automatically got SNAP, they’d have no incentive to try to save money by buying shitty cheap convenience food
a lot of people would be able to spend the extra few dollars to get the frozen dinner with more vegetables, the fresh (cold) deli sandwich, the whole grain higher fiber options, etc.
and since you can’t use it on takeout/restaurants, a bunch of people are now more motivated to cook at home with their free food money (even if the cooking is just heating up prepared stuff that’s often healthier than fast food)
after 10 years or so we’d probably save billions in public health costs alone
I think you would have to be a moron to not advocate for the curtailing of obvious abuse, or utilizing resources from other departments to assist with enforcement, or just have thorough screening that blocks abuse before it occurs.
I stand by my statement.
So let me get this straight: you think spending more money overall to provide aid to fewer people is A-OK, and yet I’m somehow the moron for wanting to save money and help more people?
That’s some hateful fucking bullshit on your part. You should be ashamed of yourself.
I’m sorry I called you a moron via the transitive property, I meant that more like its obvious, I realize that was a mistake.
You’re making a lot of choices for me and putting words in my mouth, and I don’t think our conversation will be productive from this point because you are not even considering my statements.
I hope you have an excellent day.
There are lots of things that seem “obvious,” but are actually wrong. The idea that you have to means-test aid to avoid “abuse” (according to some presupposed definition of “abuse” that ought to itself be debatable, BTW) may or may not be one of them, but what is definitive is that you’d have to be a moron to not even be willing to think about it first.
I feel like “luxury vehicles” is the same buzzword as “assault weapons.” A meaningless buzzword to evoke emotion.
What’s a “luxury vehicle?” What’s the cutoff? Are they in a nicer Honda or a Lotus? Seeing as how this country’s citizens are famously one illness or ouchie away from financial ruin, did they purchase this vehicle before or after needing assistance? Are they still making payments or is it paid off?
Facts and hard criteria or GTFO with this nonsense.
It’s literally just trying to goad the struggling to pull the rug from the destitute, while the rich pop their champaign and laugh. It’s class warfare rhetoric to take the heat off the Epstein class, and anybody falling for it is a damned fool.
they were using “entitlements” before.
Go after the real welfare queens. The Walton family, Elon Musk, the oil and gas industry. Big corporate farming. Ending subsidies for oil and gas alone would pay for Medicare for all
this is exactly the welfare queen thing from the 80’s. The myth is a black woman from the inner city, the reality was a white farmer bilking the system.
deadass the only people i ever met who bragged about intentionally committing fraud (hiding income and claiming dependents they didn’t actually support, in their case) to qualify for benefits were also the pasty whitest trash I’ve met
also they were just generally mean horrible people
and i’d rather a million fuckers like them get their undeserved benefits if it meant nobody who needs it ever gets denied.
ideally I would like universal benefits with no means test. that way no one can cheat and everyone who needs it gets it.
The Tax Evasion and Avoidance of billionaires is many times the entire budget of this kind of thing.
You could literally make up for 100% fraud in things like food stamp by making somebody like Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos pay the same effective tax rate as everybody else.
Even if these claims from the far-right of widespread fraud and abuses in social security were true, they would still be like distracting people from a raging forest fire by waving a sparkler.
We just need to implement something like a 1% wealth tax for any entity (people or businesses) with net assets over say $5M. Having more than that has minimal justified purpose
