Individuals acting individually results in nothing except the death of a comrade. Action happens through coordination, intelligence gathering and collective action.
If the country goes whaere it looks like it is going
Eventually we each are going to have to decide
When a resistance group is formed …
Will you join?
And what are you willing to do?
Curiously I’m having to deal with this very conflict. I want to join the resistance, but I’m (literally) allergic to sunlight (which precludes street demonstrations) and I’m a goblin when it comes to in-person social development, such as organizing.
The mutual aid groups in Sacramento are scarce, so it’s difficult to ask them.
Do I make useful memes and infographics? Not sure.
Curiously, the nearest ICE hq is in San Francisco, and there are resistence movements there interfering with ICE action.
Probably cook.
Travel along with the resistance, tending to troops, fixing meals, fetching ammo, just a worker bee in the military machine.
Dude, get yourself connected with your local resistance organizations anyway! There are so many ways to contribute that aren’t waving cardboard signs in the sunlight—research, making maps, updating websites, emailing politicians, running social media outreach, designing signs for printing, surveillance, reporting, and yes, making infographics. There are even organizations that conduct themselves almost entirely online.
In the 30’s and 40’s resistances were everywhere and weren’t always visible. Spreading the news or setting up infrastructure for resistance movements were just as viable as boots on the ground and protests.
Whether or not the average person will go to a protest is heavily studied in Game Theory.
Unsurprisingly, the consistent finding is that either the person needs to have no risk from attending (lol, facial recognition and Palintir), have no costs to attending, or things have to be otherwise be bad enough that they genuinely think that things can’t get worse for them if they attend and change might actually happen if they attend.
See you at work on Monday I guess.
the person needs to have no risk from attending
The government deals in violence and knows how to handle groups of protestors, whether they originate as peaceful or violent. Don’t play to their strengths by engaging them on that level and giving them a confrontation that they can escalate.
Non-participation, boycotts, malicious compliance, quiet quitting, anticonsumption, and birthstriking are more my style. It’s not glamorous or quick, but governments are notoriously inept at dealing with situations that they can’t just beat or shoot at. They don’t know what to do when a hammer is an ineffective tool for the job.
These sorts of actions may be inconvenient or cause you to forgo certain things that you want. However it doesn’t put you in any actual risk, whether it be physical, legal, or financial. The non-risk aspect of it means that it has a much lower barrier to entry, and thus a lower threshold for how bad things need to get before people take action.
This is so insightful. All the Lemmy keyboard warriors like to jump directly to armed revolution, dismissing every other potential way to resist fascism that more folks are actually willing to join in now.
“A protest” is literally nothing
Protests aren’t nothing. That’s why the government spends so much energy dispersing them. Riots would be more effective, but that doesn’t make protesters nothing.
That reminds me of something I hear awhile ago. It went something like “if voting didn’t matter, they wouldn’t be trying so hard to stop you”
It’s less than nothing. The “no kings” protest had the effect of illustrating how limp the resistance is and empowering the fascists. They were racking up a body count while the rest of you were doing a parade. Great work.
Actually 🤓, they were the ones doing a parade during the no kings protests, while I was racking up my body count with your mom.
Cool, this is a very good and useful way to use your energy. Don’t by any means go out and do something that matters.
Lol trolling you is definitely a better use of energy than whatever it is you’re choosing to do on here
You win, you got me. Comfort yourself with that while your neighbors get thrown into unmarked vans by masked thugs.
You’ve got a point. It didn’t instantly fix all of our problems so it must’ve been worthless.
It’s not much, but it’s certainly much more than just whining on the internet.
or things have to be otherwise be bad enough that they genuinely think that things can’t get worse for them if they attend and change might actually happen if they attend.
Usually, the main reason for protests and revolutions to grow immensely is if the means of livelihood is affected. No food to eat? Blame the government. No jobs? Blame the government. No housing? Blame the government. They’re cutting pensions? Blame the government. Speaking of which, the planned pension reform by Putin, years ago, was the only time his leadership was seriously threatened by the public. Otherwise, Russian people don’t care if Kremlin bombs the Georgians or Ukrainians, or dissidents keep flying off the window, so long as their means of living are not touched. In that sense, individuals are selfish and don’t mind authoritarianism as long as they themselves are not severely affected.
Humans are complex and are not naturally predisposed to crave for democracy, contrary to what many Westerners believe. Ultimately, it is a question of liberty versus security. Some prefer security so long as standards of living is well kept by the ruling elites, and certain degree of freedom is allowed to the public. That’s why, unfortunately, some authoritarian leaderships persists for so long. Saudi Arabia is an absolute monarchy for as long as anyone can remember, and Francisco Franco’s fascist regime survived long, in spite of the fall of fascism after World War 2.
No one seriously thinks these are anything like concentration camps, and that’s why most people won’t protest them.
While not wrong, I don’t think this is necessarily the whole story.
It’s more that our collective narrative has been atomized, and people have been given their permission slips to stay comfortable, to only consume the news and stories and narratives that preserves their comfort. (Note that comfort is not the same as happiness, this conflation is absolutely wrecking our entire society, learn they are different things and you will make great progress in your life.)
Our addiction to comfort comes from survival impulses, and capital has learned how to exploit this, to give us food and drugs and products to buy and shows to watch and video games to escape into and podcasters and streamers who take care of the mental work for us. None of which makes us feel satisfied or complete, but placates our survival urges and makes us not seek change or new ideas.
The internet and related algorithms has shoved a wedge deeply between our shared realities. We are no longer forced to listen to the uncomfortable perspectives of others. We are no longer required to adjust, to compromise, to adjust our views. As individuals you may think you’re very self-reliant and self-actualized, but we’re talking populations. Populations are like liquids, they seek certain lowest levels. Our levels are now manufactured. This means you can live in willful obliviousness to uncomfortable truths without ANY consequence.
So even if someone “knows” that there is something like a concentration camp being built, there is no chance in their world for it to intrude on their comfort so the incentive to DO SOMETHING about it is not there, so it just becomes an uncomfortable presence which we tend to unconsciously avoid. We then create stories in our heads to rationalize and validate these feelings. Cognitive dissonance is not some mental fallacy that only “stupid” people fall into, it’s hard-wired into each of us as a survival tool to avoid creating problems in our predictable lives.
edit: reminder people, there was massive pushback about the US getting involved with Europe and Germany before and during WW2 even as evidence of genocide was coming to light. This isn’t new. What is new is that we don’t have social pressure anymore to do the right thing. There is absolutely no incentivization to change stances.
I like your username =]. Also I think we mostly agree on these points. Not wanting to argue I would add the critique that seeking comfort is fine. Its fine to be comfortable your entire life. Just there has to be something that motivates us to preserve that comfort we enjoy and spread it to others. Having things and being subdued has a cost and we as Americans pass that cost on to future generations. Somehow we have to make an attempt to bridge that gap.
One of the more dangerous assumptions is that Nazis were overtly and objectively evil from the start. It conveniently looked perpetually different than what we’re currently seeing.
I mean, the photos we’re being presented - they’re not even in black and white!
That is a problem. That’s how these things start. You ignore something right in front of your face. The people need to draw a line. While it might not be an extermination camp you dont want to wait until it becomes one. These people in these camps are only guilty of misdemeanors. They are not all violent criminals as trump would have you believe.
This is making a good point, but I still have to be here for my kids. I’ll donate, vote, and argue, but I’m not fighting anyone off because my kids need me.
Leaving the country is also an option we’re looking into, but my wife thinks we should stay here and continue to do what little we can.
Leaving does more than staying
The government doesn’t need you to agree with them, but they do need your tax dollars. Well educated, high earners leaving does a lot. Being the recipient of those people is a large part of the US’s dominance over the past 70 years
If those high earners were protesting and fighting, feeding those with less, supporting rebellion with their money and knowledge instead of working or fleeing, it would certainly solve that problem.
My kids are the reason I’d be going to fight.
It’s easy to say that.
The plan is already in place with my family for when your dictator presses your countrymen into service to come for our water, oil and rare earth metals. It has been so since drumphkins started talking about annexation and instigated economic warfare on our country and we in turn heard crickets from 'murica. We won’t be working, on our couches or fleeing to the best European country that will take us. Our kids may embark on a European journey but we will be right here at home.
The kits are stocked and the truck is ready to roll with five other like minded individuals. Turns out we might only be going to Ottawa though to protest our own government before that happens at this rate.
Fucking right it’s easy to say that. Because it’s the truth.
Their kids need them too. The point of solidarity is accepting the same risks as them because they don’t get to make that choice.
That’s beautiful. Incidentally, do you have kids yourself?
Does being a parent make you care less about other people’s kids?
More, if anything.
If only there was something we could do anonymously like some machine that lets us all communicate and shape culture and awareness that was free and could be done in our own homes with massive effects
Where, on tor?
Yeah, I argue this shit online all the time, too. That’s why I listed “argue” in the things I’m able to do.
Arguing isn’t it.
Need better networks and some key spaces that produce great content that keeps story’s alive. Just think back the past year of all the shit that has occurred. Almost all of it lasted 24hrs. The left don’t seem to be aware of online engagement and capture where as the right do. They’re still talking about Hillary and her emails with the same energy when it occurred. I still see people bringing up Rosanne. That’s because they have people keeping it alive and creating content. They don’t create these things for the hell of it. It’s strategic and even links new content to older stuff. I find hanging out of left wing spaces people are just reacting to news as it comes and then forgetting.
So you want me to repost stuff?
Meh, its ok, its really just a truth of the universe at this point. No changing it. If there was the sentiment from everyone would be, “right, let’s do something right now.”
Im also not infallible so maybe the sentiment changes.
Learning a foreign language and runing the fuck out of US is also an option. You don’t need risk everything just to better a country where 60% of population hates you and rest is barely neutral.
We don’t need the Americans who are too cowardly to fix their own country, thanks.
Agreed.
If you have an university degree or job that’s in high demand even learning a foreign language can be done after you got out. (source: I have a shitload of America friends that came to Europe without speaking anything but English)
Need ideas for countries. What’s a good place I could move to that has decent public transit infrastructure, free healthcare and good welfare/retirement benefits, cheap gigabit internet, and legal cannabis concentrates?
(Last one is most important because I literally cannot sleep without weed; prescription sleeping pills are awful and do not work effectively for me. Also flower is a non-option cause the wife hates the smell and I want to be considerate.)
Germany, The Netherlands or Czech Republic.
The Netherlands allows cannabis concentrates now? Last I checked it was only flower, and you still can only buy it in “coffee shops”.
They do as far as I know.
Did some limited research and it seems like no other country except Uruguay meets my needs. In those other countries, it seems like you have to make your own (illegally). Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but it appears that you can’t just walk into a shop and buy shatter, crumble, wax, a preloaded distillate vape, etc.
I don’t have the skills nor the fancy equipment to make my own concentrates, so I guess I’m going to die here in the US… I don’t want to have to go back to the days of taking several prescriptions for my various physical and mental issues. I just want to be able to freely hit the vape anytime and anywhere, and not have to look over my shoulder every time I do so. Those days are far behind me and I never want to go back to them ever again.
Lets just wait what we Germans vote in 2029. Not sure CDU will kill off the AfD (i actually believe they will team up).
2029 may be too late. If things don’t turn around after the midterms, I’m leaving the country.
Australia
Or even just still using English. Most countries use it in some capacity.
You can get by with English in many countries but it doesn’t work as a long term plan to just rely on English if you plan to move there.
Yeah it’s being able to communicate somewhat vs being able to integrate language wise, right?
You’re going to struggle to get a job most places if you sont know the native language
Yes
It’s more like 30% of the population
Only 12% of African Americans voted Trump IIRC. The majority of European Americans did vote for him. Don’t let them hide what they are behind the decency of others.
This is how you concentrate evil, and doing so in a huge area with the most power and resources is a bad idea.
The better idea is to organize, spread the good out, beat gerrymandering, beat FPTP, regulate campaign funding and special interest lobbying, change the laws, bring back evidence based policy making expert council, and crush the enemy… Or be crushed and or ousted yourself.
see this is where you unite the gangsters in the streets. you get them to join together and tell them this is how it starts, how this will help them and others stuck in their current situations. I’m telling you this is the only way really, why do you think dump chump is scared of ms13 gangster lol seriously I think it’s the only way it happens
“Everyone but me should be rising up and fighting the Trump administration” - Progressives of Lemmy
And what are you doing?
Tbf I think a lot of us are just taking notes from LA
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You go first
This kind of reply effectively kills any momentum that COULD be achieved from sharing the collective frustrations and feelings.
Every movement and uprising against tyranny has started from enough people reaching a breaking-point and realizing that they all have to do something “right now” and this kind of “What are you doing” and “You go first” bullshit is just your own way of saying “I’m scared so you should be too.”
You are literally serving the interests of powerful and wealthy who want to keep our population subservient and scared.
Can you read my other post?
I am addressing this one. Either you stand by it or adjust it.
I did… two posts down.
Too lazy to address individual responses and too stubborn to edit or delete the original comment that got people on your case. It’s fine, go learn something new today. Don’t bother replying, won’t see it.
“I’ll complain no one is actually doing anything” Then when I ask what it is you’re doing to help, you get defensive. You’re part of the problem. Im protesting, Im running for my local office, no I wont tell you which one. Im knocking on doors to get people out and vote whole it still might matter.
Ill ignore the fact I’m not the person you responded to but this whole angle is wrong. We dont need to accuse each other we need to encourage each other. So like, maybe the response should have been, “this is what Im doing and you can totally do something too.”
For the record, me personally, im getting involved in my community and remaining vigilant. If the tide turns Ill be on the streets with everyone else.
if the tide tunrs…? what exactly are you waiting for? mass public executions?
I will type this again:
This kind of reply effectively kills any momentum that COULD be achieved from sharing the collective frustrations and feelings. It’s a thought-stopper.
Every movement and uprising against tyranny has started from enough people reaching a breaking-point and realizing that they all have to do something “right now” and this kind of “What are you doing” and “You go first” bullshit is just your own way of saying “I’m scared so you should be too.”
You are literally serving the interests of powerful and wealthy who want to keep our population subservient and scared.
We’re turning into a lot of little Eichmanns
I hate that term. Eichmann very notably revelled in his role and tried to play up how many people they killed.
I hadn’t come across it or heard of Eichmann until just now. It’s shitty that it doesn’t use a better namesake to represent what it’s trying to describe; but that description is one that’s absolutely happening. Hence OP’s meme.
The vast majority of us, self included, are stuck in that trap; and having a label for that trap is an important step to challenging it.
So… I can 100% understand the opposition to it, but what do you recommend in its stead?
“Mitläufer”. A German Term for people who don’t revel in their role, don’t actively contribute to the suffering, but just “let it run its course”.
