A local church is urging its members to permanently remove books from the Shelby County Public Library by checking them out and never returning them. The books portray gay characters and historical figures or explore LGBTQ+ themes.
Pamela Wilson Federspiel, who has been director of the library in downtown Shelbyville for 34 years, says the action is tantamount to “stealing.”
But three leaders of the Reformation Church of Shelbyville defend what they call an “act of civil disobedience.”
Bill them fees. Then take them to court when they don’t pay and if they do pay use the money to buy more of the books. These are fools that are used to being milked like cattle…use it for good.
Not if. Heil hydra, replace each stolen copy with two more.
Wow these LGBT books are flying off the shelves! We should buy a lot more of them!
There are two groups here. One wants to be allowed to live their lives in peace and one wants to control you. The press and the ones that want to control you you have twisted it and it’s infuriating.
Cause the press is afraid of not being able to talk to the ones that want to control you, So they double up by covering up/slanting stories that are critical of the controllers while punching down at everyone else…
Then, like good dogs, they look up at the controllers, panting and satisfied with themselves, begging for masters affection.
The religious… Always willing to break the law
And always willing to punosh others with it.
Typical Shelbyville.
This is what inbred cousin marriage does to a town.
That’s theft. There’s nothing CIVIL about trying to erase the presence of a particular group of people from society …
No theft is cool. This is religious censorship and the precursor to an extermination campaign. They’ll kill us if we dont stop them.
How is theft from public institutions, which keep getting funding cuts, considered cool?
Replied to wrong comment?
Nope.
It’s a direct response to what you said. Not sure why you would think otherwise.
It does not seem to follow or engage with what i was saying.
That’s actually really funny.
I can’t believe what goes through these people’s minds.
The way to fight this is easy. Offer to buy new library copies. Eventually they’ll run out of people without overdue books.
Burning or disposing of the books will also generate bad press because it associates them with their kindred spirits: Nazis and church censors.
I was gonna say start taking pews out of their church until the books come back, but buying new books works, too.
Or just hang around till the offering plate comes by and then help yourself to money to rebuy books.
If it’s religious, yeah, it’s theft. These assholes happily break every commandments they have “in the name of Christ”
Why is it always always the religious that really truly fuck everyone else over?
I’m at the point where if someone claims to be religious that I’m just assuming they’ll rape their children because chances are big that they do.
It takes religion to make a good man do terrible deeds.
Mankind will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the robes of the last priest
Mankind will never be free until the last politician is strangled with the
robesentrails of the last priestYou’re right, I went from memory and got it wrong
I figured you just saw some sanitized version somewhere. I remember getting called psychotic for posting that quote in the other place.
I should put that on a tshirt.
Civil disobedience often comes with the cost of breaking the law and enduring the consequences.
You may not agree with their non violent protest but as long as they suffer the consequences, I’m okay with it.
Just tell me where to donate to replace the books so they can accrue more punishment.
Yeah, so when you take something that isn’t yours and don’t give it back. That’s theft.
Of course religious freaks are going to create their own reality in which theft isn’t theft. They’re pros at creating alternate realities when it benefits them.
These are criminals not only committing theft, but also a hate crime.
I’m sorry, but stealing a book from a library is not a hate crime, although I get the context and your sentiment. I would say that I’m low-key impressed by their sort of shenanigans as I admire civil disobedience.
It makes me feel like the alternative is to crowdsource some funding, buy all these books back, and… hold the thieves accountable by not allowing them to be lent books until paid or returned. Plus the stupid church people amp up library card holder numbers for funding from local taxes!
Stealing books alone isn’t a hate crime.
Targeting specific books because you hate a specific group of people, well maybe there’s no hate crime enhancer for theft. But it’s motivated by hate, it’s a hate crime.
I upvoted this vs. the other comment (yikes). I’m not disagreeing that this is hate motivated and it’s a crime… so yah… technically a “hate crime” but it doesn’t fit the legal definition and yah there should be consequences, but it’s not shooting up a gay bar. My intent wasn’t to minimize the hate, but to discuss how to push back against it for what it is…
“Hate crime” is a specific legal term. While unfortunate, the parent commenter is right; stealing books even when motivated by hate is not legally considered a hate crime.
Under federal law, only actions leading to bodily injury or attempts thereof can qualify as hate crimes.
Under Kentucky law (KRS 532.031), criminal mischief is only considered a hate crime if the amount of damage exceeds $500. While the total cost might exceed that, this is counted on a per-offender basis.
Don’t get me wrong, it definitely should be considered a hate crime and the legislature should change the law to define this action as a hate crime (even if it is a relatively minor one), but under the current law, it isn’t. It’s merely criminal mischief in the second degree.
If I were a prosecutor I would be trying to throw the book at these morons though.
The question I have is whether or not it can be considered censorship by the fact that they’re stealing books related to a specific minority group/topic with the intent to censor information about that group.
I think there’s a better case to be made there for federal charges.
yeah I hear you, I was just pointing out that it’s motivated by hate. And if it was any sort of violent crime it would have a hate crime enhancer on it.
It’s not direct harm, but the intention is to erase queer lives and queer media, that queer people rely on to find their reflection in. Especially if they grow up places where they don’t get exposure to other folks like themselves.
It’s more than theft. Because intentions matter. But, there’s also no legal framework for the prosecution.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think there needs to be an enhancement of some sort that recognises an offence, even if minor, was motivated by hate.
Right now, I associate the words “hate crime” with serious criminal behaviour that results in bodily harm or threats to personal safety or destruction of large amounts of property. I think it might need to stay that way to avoid watering down the term.
Rather, there should probably be a new category called something like “hateful anti-social behaviour” to refer to minor transgressions like stealing the LGBTQ books or things like calling all the LGBTQ people you encounter slurs and other forms of harassment.
There it is. Thanks for the sanity check. I swear people go off half cocked if you aren’t 100% hive minding. The book theft is absolutely motivated by hatred, intolerance and probably repression against LGBTQ in some misguided attempt to Save the Children TM. I 100% agree they are looking to cause ignorance and indirectly that could lead to a person not getting information that could help them, but it’s not permanent damage and certainly caused no direct harm.
I hear you but there’s not a court in the land that would uphold book theft as a hate crime. And there are some heinous hate crimes that it would minimize by association (think eye rolling). In my town a guy got nearly destroyed by some drunk bar bros. His face was permanently broken up, he quit work at a friend’s place and as far as I know, left the country. That’s real hate with real impact And I could get behind considerjng targeted shit like this as hate-motivated crime, but then we need some sort of impact level and I have a feeling the fundies would turn it around to say they are being “hate crimed” when there’s a pride parade or some other nonsense…
Hate-by-proxy?
What is their motivation for stealing the library books?
Deyr turning the kids geyyyy!
It’s a targeted hate crime against LGBTQ. If you can’t see that, you’re part of the problem.
tl;dr “hate crime” has a legal definition and these actions don’t meet that definition. The definition should probably be updated to include this kind of antisocial behaviour.
Pasting an excerpt from my earlier comment:
“Hate crime” is a specific legal term. While unfortunate, the parent commenter is right; stealing books even when motivated by hate is not legally considered a hate crime.
Under federal law, only actions leading to bodily injury or attempts thereof can qualify as hate crimes.
Under Kentucky law (KRS 532.031), criminal mischief is only considered a hate crime if the amount of damage exceeds $500. While the total cost might exceed that, this is counted on a per-offender basis.
Comment sections are not legal documents it’s live language.
Why are you trying to apply a legal definition to what is a commonly accepted understanding of the words used?
Stealing these books because to cause hurt and damage to a specific group of people who is hateful. It is emotion and communication, it is not a legal definition that is being used. You are welcome to point out how the legal systems are failing to protect people and the mechanisms, like not including all actions motivated by hate for another person, is kind of missing the point.
Yes it’s not a legal argument, but that’s not how people actually talk or communicate unless they are specifically trying to speak legalese.
You are using the wrong language(though it could be a dialect instead I suppose)
By all means when someone is claiming it’s a legal definition that are taking about, then disabuse then if their error, but don’t simply assume “hate-crime” is intended to be anything other than its most literal usage, you can just ask them if they mean that phrase in a legal sense if you suspect that is what they are and or want to do.
otherwise your arguing that hate crimes never happened before they were legislatuted into law. Which is stupid and I don’t believe you are stupid
Absolute trash response. STEALING A BOOK is NOT A HATE CRIME and you diminish real hate crimes against my LGBTQ friends and family by acting like it is. I am absolutely NOT part of whatever problem you think I am. Did you even read the comment? Nevermind… I dont’ care.
Literally any crime can be a hate crime if it is motivated by hate.
no one is diminishing anything. Because nothing is diminished by recognizing minority cases when they’re are major cases involved. They are separate actions that are also hate crimes.
You are using the oppresors arguments against your own allies here. Your outrage is juvenile and misplaced. You should stop attacking your allies if you want to help your friends and family. That’s keeping your unknown family and friends, the ones you haven’t met yet, from finding you by your needless aggression.
Let me give a reality check here… First, calling me outraged is pretty humorous. Second, it does diminish real hate crime and you make yourself insufferable by saying otherwise.
Winning over the public is an important part in the fight for equity. If you go to your average person and say lynching a person of color with a burned cross on the front yard is a hate crime and then in the same breath say that “stealing hymnals from a predominantly POC congregation” is a hate crime, you’re going to lose people. Quickly. Your average mainly conservative who hears this will probably make snide remarks about being Social Justice Warriors or the like. Making distinctions is what we do, words matter, and we have to pick our battles.
Stealing from a library with intent is a crime. Keeping LGBTQ kids from learning more about themselves is certainly hate oriented (and/or repression, ignorance and self-hatred). So by your black and white rules it’s technically a hate crime (I don’t disagree with the technicality here, BTW and said that in another comment elsewhere). But these are simply not at the same level. The world is nuanced and full of gray. You can get into all the semantics you have above about legal vs. layperson comments, yadda yadda… in the end, in the real world you lose people who could have been allies and your average person DOES speak with legal frames of reference. REAL allies who vote and support when they see heinous crimes called out. If you lash out at every perceived micro aggression and annoyance as one grouped level of hate, in the real world you’ll lose your audience because you’re saturating them with noise.
I’m not using any oppresor’s arguments here. This is simple reality. It holds true across a massive spectrum of life. And you can be as juvenile as you want by sticking to your unthinking dogma “all hate is hate” and meanwhile, you’ll erode the good will you have and lose what you could have had if you focused down real damage to those you support. Countering this sort of idiotic bible thumping hatred was the point of my first post, BTW - as in “how can we cheekily make their annoying and stupid hate turn against them” because it’s a minor infraction. It still bears paying attention to (which ultimately is probably what you’re trying to convey?) but it doesn’t bear the same level of language or response. Simple as that.
P.S., I plan on running this conversation by some friends who happen to be a gay married couple and expect some giggles at both the original theft and your naivete. And I’m utterly unconcerned that someone won’t find me and ask for my support because of this. You know why? I make it clear who I support and what I do through my actions. In fact, I would support them and tell them to pick their battles and choose their words carefully so they can have a positive impact.
That’s a lot of words for someone who wasnt showing outrage.
That’s a complete lack of argument for someone who didn’t have a good one.
Not a hate crime, but they could easily stack on criminal conspiracy and solicitation charges.
I get both sides of this not or is a hate crime but they make a good point that it is a crime motivated by hate of a specific people/group. So while the law doesn’t have hate theft listed, it does make sense people would argue it is a hate crime
I’ve worked in libraries and this isn’t a new tactic. The funny thing to me is that the library will almost always rebuy the missing book unless they were planning on removing it anyway, so the net result is a signal to the publishers to print more LGBTQ books.
I’ve worked in libraries
Not only print more of those books, but exhaust the library’s budget for other books.
This is the butterfly flutter that brings about the first trans president and cements the USA as the queerest place on Earth, a country so gay that none dare challenge us.
please dear God I’ve never asked you for anything before and I’ll never ask for anything again but
ICBMs covered in glitter.
ICBMs where the payload is glitter: new war crime unlocked. Glitter will be there for centuries to come
Nuclear disarmament is easy once we have something worse
But biodegradable glitter cause we’re not planet-hating monsters!
Civil disobedience and “petty crime” aren’t mutually exclusive. It is integral to civil disobedience that laws are broken. Also there is probably a difficulty and lots of legal debate about when violating a civil contract, borrowing an item for a specified time, becomes theft of the item by not returning it.
I think non of these should be the question here though. It is simply a dick move.
Hope they enjoy their item replacement fees and collection agency reports, and not being able to use the library at all 'til all of that is resolved (no matter how much a fit they throw when they can’t use the printers.) They’ll still pay for the material with their taxes. They’re paying for public unbiased access to information either way. We’ll serve LGBTQIA+ books the same way we serve faith books the same way we serve Bill O’Reilly’s slop and tomes of questionable fad diets and endless ghostwritten hackjob murder mysteries. For free. For everyone.
Their loss if they wanna stay dumb and mad.
Pretty sure God’s not big on stealing stuff that ain’t yours, too. These “churches” are cults of lost, confused, angry children, and I pray they find their brains somewhere along the way.
Thanks for supporting your local libraries, especially as we’re under siege from so many angles every single day.
—With love, a library employee (also a Christian)
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Return them. Give someone else the chance to enjoy them too.
My library doesn’t charge late fees for children’s books, but does for other books.
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Shame on you.
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Yes, I can tell you don’t value them, or the hard work of librarians and enrichment of other readers.
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Chill yourself. A stranger online disapproves of your actions and said something to try and get you to change your behavior. Take the L and give their books back.
Bruh.
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I wonder how long it would take for them to cry foul if a group did the same thing for all of the Christian-themed books in the libraries…
Only one way to find out.
They wouldn’t give a shit if the library burnt down.
That’s the spirit!
I mean, they open their doors every week to allow all who want to worship with them to enter into their space and share resources. Most places have prayer books and hymnals just laying around for all to use. Those items certainly wouldn’t be expected to “walk away” typically, but it sure would be inconvenient for the churchgoers of that establishment if that were to start happening, I’d imagine. And the staff would have to replenish volumes to ensure they have enough on-hand. Every single week, this happens. If it’s the church causing the pain that happens to start wondering where all the spare books went, that’s gonna be a bigger statement than the library books going missing. Guess who will be happy to provide a general summary of all the info that suddenly disappeared from the libraries? If you guessed The Church Spoken Of Earlier, you see where I’m going…
The library might not be the target you are seeking, is all I’m saying. They are usually staffed by very nice and nerdy people with small budgets and a desire to help their communities have equitable access to information.
Yeah, but that would require actually going into a church on a regular basis.
Headphones and watch videos? Plus a lot of them have juice, coffee and snacks!
Are you saying I should take those bibles from the Jackasses that stand in front of my university science building doors every semester? Maybe ask for the whole box? I wonder if bibles are recyclable lol
Absolutely. As many as possible. Then bin em.
The thin pages sure do make a nice tinder for the campfire.
You mean rolling papers?
You don’t want to smoke the ink
But then how will I feel the Holy Spirit inside of me?
cough cough
Speak for yourself
And toilet paper.
I’ve seen them used more often as rolling papers.
Can confirm they work great for this purpose.
The difference is that the church would just pass the credit card reader around and get all new bibles every week. And they can throw in a little underage hooker for the priest, as a treat
And who gives that money? The people that support the church. Who doesn’t pay that money? The tax payers who already bought books once for the library. That’s the real difference. Instead of everyone footing the bill for this nonsense, imagine a world where the problem is mitigated with ONE EASY TRICK.
Edit to add: stealing from the library is just an ugly move, that’s all I’m saying. Libraries are learning institutions.
No, the church supporters take a tax deduction that leads to everyone still footing the bill.
Theft and destruction of books is bad, period. Even fucking mein kampf should be allowed to exist (with context).
But if the goal is to actually make it go away? Churches will just fleece Those People and The People Who Don’t Want To Antagonize Those People.
Good. Make them spend more money.
