Seems like hard-core hate for anyone religious is fine in many circles. Is there a point where it becomes as problematic as other forms of bigotry? Not any specific religion necessarily just the disdain for the religious in general.
If you hate them just because they’re religious that’s bigotry
but there are a lot of people who use religion to justify bigoted or harmful beliefs. for those I have no tolerance and I’m not sorry 💅
My stance is anyone using any belief system to excuse hate is wrong.
So, does that mean that you have no issue with a religious person who does not use their religion to excuse hate or violence?
The way you phrased that is kind of confusing. I’m fine with religious people, assuming they don’t use their religion as an excuse to hate or promote violence. For example, I think many anti religious people think of all Christians as believing in a type of Christianity similar or the same as what the Westboro Baptist church preached. In reality, many Christian denominations are accepting of lgbtq+ people as well as any race or ethnicity. Even the catholic church took a more progressive stance on gay people a few years back.
Like immediately, by definition
Don’t hate people.
Hate the perverse, uncivic, inherently tribalistic ideas of “belief without evidence”, “felt truth”, and “chosen people”
They are all toxic memes antithetical to a modern inclusive pluralistic society.
Hate the institutions not the members of them?
I suppose it’s similar to when you criticize something like, say, China or the USA. Are you also hateful towards the Chinese or Americans? Similar here.
A favourite phrase of mine that comes up in so many different areas of life is: “soft on people, hard on structures.” Individuals tend to be pretty good, genuine and caring people.
It’s much like how an atheist might be a great person, but the new atheist movement became a festering cesspool of anti-feminist right wing bigotry. Having a religion doesn’t change much really, shit people are universal.
When they stop legislating their doctrine.
Who is “they”?
In the US or in general? Both is reasonable as well I guess.
Lots of assumptions in this thread that the concept of ‘religion’ is interchangeable with ‘theism’. It isn’t. There’s quite a few large religions that are, or can be practised, in a nontheistic way including Buddhism, Hinduism, Taosim and Jainism. There’s even a branch of Quakerism that is nontheistic.
Wider definitions of religion exist than simply ‘belief in a supernatural deity/deities’, including my own - that of modern atheistic Satanism.
In terms of bigotry - being shitty to whole groups of people based on their belief in a non-existent being feels weird to me. Being shitty if they then use that belief to justify their own bigotry is not weird and is called activism. Or to put it another way - if someone believes in a god and prays in a church and makes no comments that support the infringement of other peoples rights to exist and live their lives as they want to then that’s totally fine by me.
That’s an excellent point and not something I or the majority of commenter have taken into consideration. I’m really curious to know if any of the major detractors in these comments have more good will to nontheistic religions. Considering the numbers of comments that reference people being stupid for believing in a fake being.
Newsflash: adherents to other religions that have deities don’t take them literally, either, whether they say so or not. Tibetan Buddhism is one.
It becomes bigotry when you are unwilling to change your mind, or when you hate people of that religion for that reason alone.
I consider every form of religion to be highly dangerous and I think every religious person is delusional, irrational and illogical, to say the least. I simply avoid them like the plague and mind my own business. It’s a massive dealbreaker for any personal relationship with me. Nope, thanks. I don’t need that in my life.
Would you consider yourself a bigot ?
I consider myself anti-religious, but I don’t knock at your door at fucking 7:30 in the morning asking if you’d like to talk about atheism. I don’t creep around public places handling out pamphlets promoting atheism. I don’t deny people their rights to be moronic simpletons who can’t think for themselves. I do, however, say ‘go jump in a lake’ to religious people whenever they bother me.
That’s fair. You’re morally and intellectually superior but you don’t HATE anyone. That’s been the general consensus I’ve seen so far.
They consider themself to be morally and intellectually superior.
By definition they are… Considering oneself as one is a different matter ;)
Nothing good comes from hate. Hate is an emotion, and when you’re emotional, you cannot fix or improve things.
I think this is a great question because it absolutely gets the point. The enemy is the system, not the people. This informs you both who and how you fight back. So when someone is saying something bigoted for religious reasons, the problem isn’t necessarily that particular person, but the religious system that brainwashed them. In fact, it was a specific flavor of that religious system.
I think a more clear distinction can be found in feminism. Feminism isn’t about fighting men, but fighting patriarchy. So, sure, there are men who are dickhead misogynists, but they are also potential allies that are also hurt by patriarchy. It’s the system and those who specifically aim to perpetuate said system. Social philosophers tend to point to systems rather than people constantly, because it’s so common for people to point out symptoms rather than the cause. So when we know to identify patriarchy rather than misogynists, yeah, we’ll still call out misogynist men for sure, but also women that perpetuate patriarchy.
So if I’m blaming the system rather than the person, maybe I’m recognizing the religious person’s commitment to truth and appealing to that rather than labeling them the enemy and writing them off completely. I think something that gets lost in all the polarizing bullshit as of recent is recognizing that a great way to make another bigot not exist is to persuade them to not be a bigot anymore. The enemy isn’t people, it’s the fucking system. Like the great poets have said: “Don’t blame it on the Needy, don’t blame it on the Poor, don’t blame it on the Jew, blame it on the system. Blame it on the fucking system.”
This falls under the paradox of intolerance for me
You would consider all religious people intolerant then?
Yes.
The whole point of their story books is to give them something to feel superior about, and to give them a licence to see anyone outside of their little club as inferior
That’s an interesting point of view.
Don’t patronize. 🖕🏼
Posted this to hear and attempt to understand genuine opinions. This fella has explained the way he thinks pretty extensively on the subject. I find it interesting.
I’ll answer with another vague response. People are dumb, but a person can be smart
Hate.
Hard core hate.
Hard core hate for anyone religious.
I am sure individuals who have this hate in them, and there are circles where strong disrespect for anyone religious is tolerated, but this? No. And “many” circles?
I’m sorry but I do not believe the premise for the question to be real.
I agree with you
I don’t think this question is being asked in good faith
But surely a religious person would never bear false witness?
I’m not a religious person. I had a long argument with a friend about the subject. I also spend a bit too much time reading reddit and lemmy comments. You can choose to think the question is in bad faith but I’m just trying to have a discussion and understand how people think on the subject.
Wrote the question based on some comments I’d seen on lemmy, reddit and conversations with friends. If you don’t think many people believe hating someone based on their religion is morally correct, you should read some of the comments in this thread. It started with a long conversation with a close friend of mine. He considers himself an atheist and views religion and religious people as the root of most major evils in the world. I think its a reasonable premise based on my lived experience. Just curious what other people think.
Free blocklist in the comments!
Never, religion is an opinion and you can hate dumb opinions all you want.
If you consider someone’s religion an opinion I don’t think you’ve ever had a meaningful conversation with a religious person. Which is fine, just gonna lead to a fairly narrow view of the world.
I had very meaningful conversation about all kinds of fiction, including religion.
I don’t think thats the roast you want it to be.
No “roast” was intended.
It’s cute that you think we value your opinions
I value yours, I dont really care what you think of mine lol.
It’s a belief in something absurd, without a shred of evidence
It certainly can’t be considered a fact, ergo, it’s opinion
Reason isn’t your strong suit, huh?
Just to be clear, I’m an agnostic (likely atheist) liberal democrat, mechanical engineer and consider myself a pragmatic person. I’m trying to understand opinions and consider how they clash with my personal experiences in life so far. I don’t necessarily think religious people are inherently bad or good. Do you have a specific stance on why someone would choose to engage with a religion? Based on other comments, it seems like you think religious people just want a reason to feel superior to others. Would you say thats accurate?
Indoctrination, or later in life, either stupidity or grasping for hope of salvation (usually both)
The comments here are awful. I am sorry for the abuse you are receiving.
I’m a staunch atheist myself, and even for some of the same reasons others are mentioning in their rage-comments. That being said, hating a person for their religious beliefs alone is baffling, and yes, makes you a bigot.
The exception I would make here is for situation and people where they, based on their religious beliefs hate you, and there’s nothing that can be done about it.I also would not call it bigoted to hate religious institutions for the discord and pain they inflict on the world.
But hating people because “well I was able to see through religion, so I am justified in hating everyone that did not and is still religious” is just such a disingenuous take. It denies the reality of indoctrination-like upbringings, of the differing educations people receive, and puts all religious people into a single “enemy” group.
I’m not US-American, as I assume many of these commenters are; where I live, the proportion of religious people is a lot lower, and the religiosity is… less pronounced, let’s say. It is much more difficult to find someone here who would, for example, go “Homosexuality is a sin according to the bible. Therefore I hate you.”; most religious people seem to have a differentiated opinion about these things, usually being more in line with “I believe there’s a God that loves us. The bible was written by fallible humans whose biases are present in the texts”.
Don’t get me wrong, I still think they are wrong in this and pity them for the time and energy lost on pleasing an imaginary being, and for the pain their beliefs can inflict upon themselves; but ultimately, that’s up to each individual person, and it does not justify hate.
I appreciate the comment but don’t worry about my feelings. I know how divisive a topic this is and I recognize the platform I’m asking on will have a pretty specific slant one way. That’s all fine by me and down arrows on the internet won’t effect my mental state whatsoever. I know/knew how strongly most feel on this and in many cases justifiably. I was/am curious about how far people think is acceptable. I obsess over understanding how “things” work, usually that starts and stops with physical devices/machines. However, I’ve been working more and more on trying to understand people and how they work, outside of my personal social circle. The prevailing opinion from this thread as well as in person conversations is pretty simple. Those who have a disdain for the religious view themselves as being morally and intellectually superior to the religious. Its an ironic paradox because the equally far other side of the spectrum seems to have the exact same belief about the non-religious. Although, particularly radical religious people are known to genocide, unlike any proposed thoughts stated here. I know the vast majority of people fall into camps somewhere between those two extremes. Sometimes its just interesting to see where the ends are.
I decided I don’t mind if people are religious, there’s a lot of religious people who I’d rather be allies with than enemies
If they are against fascism we have something in common
