Of any kind. Commuting, road biking, touring, mountain biking etc.

Been a cyclist of various types for 20 years now. Never seems to be non-controversial. Even among other cyclists… many hate other types of cyclists. And now there is a lot of specific e-bike hate/controversy.

I don’t get it man. What do you think?

IME assholes are assholes regardless of being on a bike or not.

  • Boomer Humor Doomergod@lemmy.world
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    21 days ago

    Not Just Bikes just did a video about one guy who was a major influence for how bikes are perceived in the US.

    It’s pretty long but the tl;dw is one weirdo lobbied hard to treat bikes like cars - “vehicular cycling” - and looked down on bike paths, comfortable seats, and not being a jerk.

    • gdog05@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      It was a good video and I knew nothing of that bit of history. That asshole cyclist reminded me so much of my Jr High environmental science teacher. The same kind of magnanimous attitude.

    • CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de
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      Less than 3 min in and he’s nailed the answer to OP and the reason cycling in USA sucks. The idiots who think they can keep up with and survive a bit from a 200 horsepower 2 ton block of steel.

        • CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de
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          Well, he has a point, genitals don’t like being crushed.

          But the seat design he loves causes incontinence and ED in men so I rather suspect he’s not qualified in any way.

          This fucking book is like a Reddit wiki, only somehow worse than most I’ve come across. Nearly 1000 pages gatekeeping cycling.

          Also he’s arguably responsible for thousands of deaths, including one in my family and I’m amazed I haven’t heard of this guy before. He’s just about as effective as Thomas Midgely!

  • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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    21 days ago

    Cars are both an addictive drug and a religion, car drivers for the most part can’t admit either. A happy normal person using a bicycle for something practical is a direct threat to the fragile mental landscape established by many people because it brings an awareness of their drug use and zealotry to the surface.

    Not bashing drugs or religion, this is a problem of buried collective denial fundamentally.

    • BrianTheeBiscuiteer@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      Ooooorrrr a lot of us live far away from our place of work and biking is very impractical and generally dangerous due to poor infrastructure.

      • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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        Ok so most people are forced into the drug cult…
        How does that refute my point? I am not judging individuals here I am pointing out the drug cult.

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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          Except it’s not merely a cult, it is the entire history of the development of our nation. Our infrastructure is built on the idea that space is plentiful, and everyone has their own car. The very concept of suburban America is predicated on at least one car in every home. Communities were built without walking access or public transit. Commerce was congealed into vast campuses consisting entirely of parking lots and three-story office buildings. School districts consolidated into massive centralized buildings where thousands of students arrive via hundreds of big yellow busses, some traveling for hours each way.

          Even if you wanted to break free from the “cult,” there’s like two cities in the entire USA where you could live, work, and raise a family in a decent school district without a car, and they would be some of the highest cost of living areas in the entire world.

          • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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            I feel like you are just making my point that cars are the combination of an addictive drug and a coercive cult with a long established presence?

            Even if you wanted to break free from the “cult,” there’s like two cities in the entire USA where you could live, work, and raise a family in a decent school district without a car, and they would be some of the highest cost of living areas in the entire world.

            I mean sure you are exaggerating a little but yeah… it is bleak in the US in this respect I agree.

            • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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              That’s not an exaggeration in any way. New York and Chicago. There are other cities with some public transit, but anywhere with a) jobs, b) decent schools, and c) reliable public transit will also be prohibitively expensive.

        • bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip
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          Drugs generally tend to be a life choice, vehicular transport tends to be a necessity. Yes there are people in cities that have public transit options yet they actively choose to drive, but many of us that live outside of those cities don’t really have that option. You’re not inherently wrong, but it isn’t the linear correlation you’re attempting.

          • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz
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            Yes there are people in cities that have public transit options yet they actively choose to drive, but many of us that live outside of those cities don’t really have that option.

            Many people don’t have the practical option of leaving their cult, most cults wouldn’t exist if they did.

      • SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social
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        20 days ago

        No, that explanation fails on the face of it. If that were the case, then why the furious opposition whenever such infrastructure is proposed?

    • ToiletFlushShowerScream@lemmy.world
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      21 days ago

      I drive a sports car with a giant engine and ridiculous lack of utility. I like driving it a lot. I take every chance to drive it. BUT I appreciate every cyclist I see on the road immensely. I applaud every time a bike lane is built - even if it takes away a car lane I could use. Am I really part of a minority?

  • Washedupcynic@lemmy.ca
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    Cyclist here. Didn’t earn my license until the age of 28, when I moved to a city that had even shittier infrastructure for bikes.

    If we are going to place blame where it is due, look no further than the engineer, John Forester. John Forester was a wannabe bike racer out in California that wanted bikes to be treated like cars because dip shit thought he was sonic; he wanted to go fast. His concern was that bikes would get relegated to sidewalks and paths where they couldn’t go fast if bike infrastructure was implemented. He was against bike infrastructure during post war 1970’s CA where lots of urban planning was happening.

    When it comes to walking and bicycling, most state DOTs and most local DOTs wait until there is a demonstrated demand before implementing bike infrastructure. Meaning stuff doesn’t get done until there’s a worn path on the side of the road where people are walking, or — as dark and morbid as it sounds — enough people are killed crossing a multi-lane road that eventually action is warranted. Many cities like the city where I am from were incorporated in the late 1600’s early 1700’s, and no one was thinking about bike infrastructure then. Roads were built with horse carts in mind, which evolved into cars. For older cities making the changes is a major cost vs urban planning to include bikes when a city is new and being built.

    Another key difference between the USA, and European/Asian nations that have better bike infrastructure, is the fact that the later believes in science. In the early 2000s, the city of Paris, France, started a major push to roll out bike infrastructure to encourage cycling because air pollution was such a huge problem. Between 2005 and 2024, levels of nitrogen dioxide and fine particulate matter — two of the most harmful pollutants to human health — have been slashed by 50% and 55%, respectively. Amsterdam and Copenhagen are other examples of cities that built out bike infrastructure to reduce reliance on cars. Despite the environmental benefits seen in the USA when traffic plummeted during covid, most state and local governments would rather pretend that air pollution caused by cars isn’t that bad.

    Then there is the whole, if you build it, they will come, mentality. Most people in the USA don’t consider cycling viable because there is no infrastructure. It doesn’t occur to them that riding a bike is even an option because the infrastructure isn’t there. If the infrastructure were there, it might encourage more people to try cycling instead of driving. I work in a busy downtown area for my state government. The infrastructure for bikes here is god awful. There are just 3 roads in my entire town that have bike lanes, and they are often riddled with cars that have double parked in the downtown area. Once you get about 3 miles away from the downtown area, the bike lanes disappear from each road. My job has no protected locations for locking up bikes. I used to lock mine right to a tree outside of my job, and it was stolen. The ONLY reason why the guy was caught was because he stole from in front of a state government building and there were cameras everywhere. I bought a new bike, and an insane lock, and my bike was sabotaged in the new spot on street I found to park. (Someone cut small holes in my rear tire, to the point I couldn’t identify there was a breach in the tire when I had a flat because the hole was so small. I’d eventually figure it out, buy a new tire, and kept riding. The last time my bike was sabotaged, the culprit used a knife to cut the rubber of the inner tube stem, which is something that can’t be patched, and isn’t obvious until you take it apart to look for the problem. Another police report resulting in camera footage being pulled once again showed there was a asshole vandalizing bikes when he couldn’t steal them.)

    Finally, shitty infrastructure will destroy your bike. The shoulders of the roads up here are littered with potholes worse than the street, like so bad when I hit one, it flipped me over the handlebars onto the pavement. When it’s raining, you can’t tell if a puddle is just a puddle or a massive pothole. I hit so hard it popped the tire AND bent my rim. Then there’s all the glass, and random industrial waste in the shoulder too. It got so bad I started collecting the bolts, nuts, and other random pieces of metal in the road I mailed into our city’s DOT with my complaint about the state of the roads. During a bad month, I might have 4 flats, that’s almost $50 of new inner tubes, plus my time to make repairs.

      • Washedupcynic@lemmy.ca
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        19 days ago

        That is a GREAT video! Based on the book quotes in that vid, I 100% believe that John Forester would take his socks off at night and huff is foul body odor. Bro must have loved the smell of his own brand.

  • Switorik@lemmy.zip
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    21 days ago

    If you can go and maintain the speed limit, you’re fine on the road. If you’re going 1/4 of the speed limit and there’s no biking infrastructure, please stay off the road. I’ll probably get hate for it, but blame the state for not providing safe infrastructure for cyclist.

    I’ve noticed a percentage of bikers don’t think they have to respect the rules of the road. Not stopping at stop signs, lights, or passing illegally when a car is stopped. I’ve almost hit one because they ran a stop sign and I did not have one. I’ve seen one hit trying to pass a car that was actively parking.

    • ProfessorScience@lemmy.world
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      If you’re going 1/4 of the speed limit and there’s no biking infrastructure, please stay off the road. I’ll probably get hate for it, but blame the state for not providing safe infrastructure for cyclist.

      This goes both ways. If there’s no biking infrastructure, maybe its you who should blame the state for needing to go around or stay behind the cyclist. The road is theirs as much as it is yours.

      • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        The road is theirs as much as it is yours.

        People use the road to accomplish shit, going to work/school, get food, pick up kids, etc.

        Someone decked out like Lance Armstrong to make their exercise take as little physical effort as possible and uses a route that’s not planned with others in mind both in time and location is selfish. Especially people who do it during rush hour, and inconvenience 100s or even 1000s of people.

        There’s a big difference in that type of cyclist and someone that’s riding a bike in street clothes for a commute. And it doesn’t make sense to act like they’re the same.

        Like, there are loads of cities with great bike trails, but they’re not going to be great bike trails on every street. And obviously cyclists who are inconsiderate aren’t exactly rare

        • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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          21 days ago

          That’s pretty much the opposite of what the comment they’re replying to was saying though. They were complaining about bikes going below the speed limit, so I guess they only want the Lance Armstrong types on the road and not the commuters.

        • kugel7c@feddit.org
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          20 days ago

          There’s a big difference in that type of cyclist and someone that’s riding a bike in street clothes for a commute. And it doesn’t make sense to act like they’re the same.

          No there isn’t at least not a large one, cycling costume or not has almost no bearing on whether the ride is for recreation/fitness or for getting from a to b, often both are combined. If you had a 30km commute on a bike you’d also try to wear clothes that make it easier to get there quickly and you would use the most direct route and this is what most cyclists are doing when people get annoyed by them.

          Plenty of people are doing their commute as their training ride because it makes sense to do so, why should they have to drive their car half an hour and do an hour of cardio instead of their hour cycle commute, just so you can arrive a minute early come on.

          • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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            20 days ago

            Plenty of people are doing their commute as their training ride because it makes sense to do so,

            Super convenient for them, but also very inconvenient for everyone else…

            Which is my entire point about some cyclists being selfish assholes and them being the minority…

            In another comment I mentioned how those selfish cyclists will always pretend they can’t be separated out, which I feel like is relevant here. And I know no amount of comments will change your mind because of that

            • kugel7c@feddit.org
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              Why should my half hour be worth less than your minute or 2 until you can safely overtake.

              Not to mention that if their bike commute allows them to take a car of the road, you might be faster on average you just think that the bike makes you slower. Plus the 1000s of dollars in just waste if they would need to own a car instead and so on …

              You know what’s super convenient for you(r group) but super inconvenient for everyone else, car centric infrastructure development.

              • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.worldOP
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                19 days ago

                yeah i don’t get it.

                when i am driving i just… slow down and pass when it’s safe.

                i get delayed by a few seconds. it’s not a big deal. but people act like you are a heinous criminal for having to tap the brake/gas and move your wrist a little bit…

                stop signs and lights delay me a lot more than cyclists ever have. should we abolish those too?

    • Praxinoscope@lemmy.zip
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      21 days ago

      Car drivers break the law at a far higher rate than cyclists. The are way more accidents not involving bikers. Sorry people being healthy and helping the environment while reducing traffic is a slight inconvenience to you while you sit in a climate controlled box.

    • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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      If you’re going 1/4 of the speed limit and there’s no biking infrastructure, please stay off the road.

      Why though? With American roads being as wide as they are, shouldn’t it be quite easy to safely overtake slower cyclists? I manage to do that even on narrow European streets.

    • bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip
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      The big one here is sharing the road, which goes both ways. I don’t have an issue with bikes on the road, but most of our small town’s roads are one lane in each direction, and far too many bikes seem to think they’re entitled to hog the entire lane going 15mph and holding up traffic. The rules in this area are for slow traffic to turn off to allow others to pass (both vehicles and bikes), which bikes almost never do. Then you have the clowns that’ll ride 3 across and not let traffic pass, then get aggressive with drivers for honking.

      Like yes bikes are legally permitted to use the road, but also be conscious that people have places to be, and your liesure stroll is holding up people from getting to work. Its almost always tourists that bog down the main highway and are jerks about it, most locals that ride bikes tend to stick to the many side streets that run parallel to the highway.

      Now where my mom lives in the suburbs, they have the issue of kids on ebikes completely ignoring the rules of the road and causing accidents. These are little entitled rich kids with a big chip on their shoulders and zero supervision, blasting through intersections while ignoring signals, plowing the wrong way down a road, weaving through traffic, etc. Those little shits belong in jail.

      • anal_groove_parabola@lemmy.myserv.one
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        21 days ago

        I’ve noticed the same with younger ebike riders. Funny thing is that they follow the rules of the road whereas the older kids on dirt bikes could care less about the rules.

    • 0ops@piefed.zip
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      I’ve noticed a percentage of bikers don’t think they have to respect the rules of the road. Not stopping at stop signs, lights, or passing illegally when a car is stopped.

      Some states give cyclists more autonomy at lights and signage than cars. In my state for example, cyclists can treat a stop sign as a yield and a stop light as a stop sign (meaning they have to stop at the light, but if it’s clear they can cross before it turns green). So that’s something to be aware of.

    • anal_groove_parabola@lemmy.myserv.one
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      It’s too crazy to ride on the road with cars anymore. I live in a semi rural area that has been settled since the late 1600’s. Most of the roads follow the old established trails. When I was younger, I didn’t see any problems. Then again I was young, dumb, and bulletproof. Now I’m just dumb. We have a lot of rails to trails in the area so that’s where I ride anymore. It just kinda drives me nuts that I have to load up the bike and drive to a place to ride it.

  • Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    21 days ago

    Because our road systems are designed around cars. This means that it’s dangerous and impeding when a cyclist shares the road. Unfortunately, we just keep building bigger roads and removing bike lanes. This just serves to make it more of a pain in the ass for literally everyone because bikers have to use the car lanes instead of just paving an extra 6 feet of road.

    TL;DR america will pave every natural surface for traffic, but won’t mark any sliver of it for bikes.

    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca
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      20 days ago

      Don’t forget: you need 6 feet and also a meridian to divide them from cars. Drivers will not see the squishy person but they will avoid trees and shrubs.

    • porcoesphino@mander.xyz
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      I’m in Europe now walking down streets that are wide enough for a single car seeing other hikers and bikers and cars stopping for each other. Agreed these roads aren’t designed for cars hitting top speed with wide margins around them, but at least some of these comments are written in this thread are US is special / there needs to be an ideal design for bicycles or nothing is just aggregating to read

      • Zangoose@lemmy.world
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        I think the problem is that roads not designed for bikes in Europe are also old enough to have not been originally designed for cars, so things usually end up working out to some degree.

        In the US (especially for infrastructure built from scratch in the 1900s onward, i.e. most of the US except for some parts of the east coast) most roads and town layouts were designed specifically around cars and travelling at car speeds, and are explicitly hostile to anyone who isn’t travelling in the biggest truck you’ve ever seen in your life. Blame oil/motor companies for bribing politicians throughout the 1900s (and honestly still today)

  • ProfessorScience@lemmy.world
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    21 days ago

    My guess is that the amount of sprawl in America is a big contributor. It means there’s a higher barrier to biking, which in turn means that fewer people do it, which then means that there’s less effort put into biking infrastructure (and the sprawl also directly makes building infrastructure more expensive), and so then the people who do bike have to be more intrusive on other traffic. So then there’s tension between the drivers who end up inconvenienced by bikers, and bikers who feel threatened by drivers.

  • the_q@lemmy.zip
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    21 days ago

    You really don’t understand the depths of propaganda this country endures.

    • nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      Most propagandized nation on earth and it’s so sophisticated most of us don’t notice. Some will even rabidly deny it and yell about some other country that spends fractions of a fraction of what the US does on information campaigns and warfare.

  • CaptainPedantic@lemmy.world
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    21 days ago

    The only controversies I’ve seen regarding bikes I’ve seen as a city dwelling American, are bikes not following the rules of the road.

    People get upset when bikes run red lights/stop signs, ride the wrong way on streets or paths, or go way too fast on shared pedestrian paths, especially if they don’t have a bell or horn of some kind.

    E bikes get hate because they allow people to do 25 to 40 mph on pedestrian paths (where the speed limit is half of that or less). Where I live, lane splitting for motorcyclists is not legal, but E bikes do it relatively frequently. Motorists are not expecting a tiny, silent vehicle to go flying past their door at 30 mph when they’re stopped. And for some reason, most E bikes I’ve personally seen riding at night have no lights of any kind. I don’t want to hit someone in my car, and I don’t want to be hit by someone as a pedestrian, and it’s a hell of a lot harder to prevent that when you can’t see them.

    I ride my bike on shared use paths and the street with lights and a bell. I follow the rules of the road, and I’ve never had any issues.

    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.worldOP
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      I get screamed at by everyone if i stop at stop sign or a red light. by other bikers, by peds, by cars.

      when i roll red lights… nobody screams at me. so i just do that now. it feels a lot safer when you jsut go through the intersection and don’t have someone leaning out of a car threatening you for ‘being in their way’ at a red light.

    • Wahots@pawb.social
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      Regulations do vary from state to state too. Some states allow you to treat stop signs as yields if there are no cars present.

  • [deleted]@piefed.world
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    21 days ago

    A lot of people hate anything that is different than what they prefer, especially if they believe it negatively impacts them in the slightest. They also really hate it when people point out they are wrong, and the thing they hate actually makes things better for them by reducing congestion or reducing their personal costs (single payer healthcare) if they don’t feel like they have personal control over the situation.

    These people tend to get into positions of power because they want control and trumpet their views which convinces some people who didn’t even have an opinion in the first place. From there, repetition of blatant lies tends to sway the general population who don’t have enough information to know better and who see a team they can root for.

    People in general are selfish except in a crisis.

    • treadful@lemmy.zip
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      It’s not just bicycles either. I had someone scream at me with mouth froth and all because I filtered on a motorcycle. I guess they perceived I cut the line or whatever even though they weren’t even in the same lane as me.

      I’ve had a lot of hostility as a pedestrian, too. FSM forbid I want to cross the street and it delays their trip by 10 seconds.

      Car brained people are broken.

  • SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world
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    19 days ago

    It just isn’t practical to bike most places in the US. It’s too spread out, and there aren’t paths that bikes can take that they don’t have to share with 3,000lb cars that will delete them if the driver makes a single mistake.

    So biking is just a recreational thing some people do for cardio near their house.

    • yeehaw@lemmy.ca
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      18 days ago

      3000lb cars are the least of my worries. It’s the trucks and cube vans that worry me. And the shitty lack of sidewalks or wide bike lanes where it’s a 2 lane road and the speed limit is like 80kph. Death trap. Just not safe.

  • Korhaka@sopuli.xyz
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    19 days ago

    It isn’t just America, UK if you have any news article about cycling you can guarantee someone in the comments will advocate for killing people.

    So I strap a propane cylinder to the back of my bike. Mutually assured destruction.

  • Bubbaonthebeach@lemmy.ca
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    19 days ago

    They don’t consume fossil fuels to operate. Can’t have masses of people not enslaved to their car and its operations since that might hurt some big corporations bottom line.

  • TurboWafflz@lemmy.world
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    21 days ago

    I think part of it is that there are a lot of bike riders in US cities that are jerks, especially to pedestrians. When I’m crossing the street, bikes and scooters virtually never stop for me and just try to weave around me, and I once got hit by a scooter that was illegally riding on the sidewalk, which they constantly do here. I’m certainly not anti-bike because of that, but I can kind of understand why some people would be

    • bluGill@fedia.io
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      The laws are weird. I’ve often been called a jerk, but when I check the laws they are on my side - or so ambiguous that nobody really knows what is right even though everyone thinks they do (whatever helps them against everyone else)

      • TurboWafflz@lemmy.world
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        I mean I feel like if you’re on any type of vehicle, no matter what the law says you need to yield to pedestrians

        • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.worldOP
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          19 days ago

          peds also need follow the right of way. you can’t just run out in the middle of the street and force cars to slam on their brakes because you refuse to walk an extra 20ft to the cross walk. not to mention constant j walking against every ped signal even when the light is green for bikes/cars

          • TurboWafflz@lemmy.world
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            I was only complaining about bikes trying to ride through crowds in pedestrian only areas and not stopping at crosswalks, but jaywalking is a stupid crime anyway. pedestrians should always have the right of way unless you are like jumping out in front of a vehicle where they would have to slam on the brakes

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      21 days ago

      I think part of it is that there are a lot of bike riders in US cities that are jerks

      A lot of the ones an average driver interacts with are…

      Especially in a city most cyclists are only on public roads on their way to/from a trail and they prioritize avoiding cars.

      It’s just because of that, you never see them or don’t notice them as you drive by.

      What everyone notices is the selfish dicks clogging up traffic, and they’re the ones who have made cycling a huge part of their identity, and they really want to pretend any criticism of them is a criticism of every bike rider, because it’s the only chance to defend the problematic ones.

      They’re a tiny minority of cyclists, and most don’t like them either.

      • TurboWafflz@lemmy.world
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        21 days ago

        I barely notice them when I’m driving, I’m mostly talking about when I’m walking. But yeah obviously it’s not every bicycle, but it is a lot in my area

    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.worldOP
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      20 days ago

      i stop for peds at cross walks and they still call me an asshole and scream at me. happens multiple times per week.

      or they don’t go and i assume they want me to go… and they scream at me.

      i don’t get it.