While that sentiment may be the most frustrating, even if every third party voted against Trump, he still would have won. If even 10% of those voters went to Trump, he would have even won the popular vote. Polling suggests that non voters were about evenly split, so a stronger turnout generically may have done nothing.
The result was mostly due to a very boring reason. Inflation was high so whoever in office gets the blame. Similarly Trump lost mainly because COVID sucked, and anyone would have lost (his response did suck, but we saw that there was no such thing as a sufficiently good response).
People like to imagine some big political cause for good or for ill moving the voters, but by and large it’s mostly about how comfortable or uncomfortable they are in the moment to vote for or against the status quo of the moment. But those folks are “just voting” while a very loud minority talks up their “superior” choice to not vote for a lamestream candidate. They speak loudly, but they didn’t have enough votes this time to make a difference. They did in 2000 (technically Gore did have the votes when the data was in, but third party would have made it a decisive Gore victory).
But how can I blame socialist for the failure of society where 50% decide to vote for a convict rapist
Imagine being more upset with 3 million leftists than 70 million republicans.
Are any of the 70 million Republicans on lemmy with us right now?
This is a fucking pointless fight. If you’re still talking about this responsibility shifting nonsense, it doesn’t matter what side of the argument you’re one, you’re a part of the problem.
Y’all are still going to be fighting about this dumb bullshit while ICE handcuffs everyone. Maybe unify so that doesn’t happen.
Telling leftists to stop bickering and infighting over pointless bullshit instead of actively attacking the actual enemies of democracy…
First time?
this yet again, still seething.
democrat failure is a failure of the democrats. they knew the assignment, they didn’t want to pay the price. they chose this reality instead
it’s almost like multiple people can be wrong for different reasons
Anybody who wants to continue the same old same old is just someone who doesn’t want to TRY something else.
It would be saying you are perfectly ok with either candidate over the other. If you say Trump is worse, but the Democrat didn’t earn my vote so I didn’t, that’s pretty aggravating to hear. If you truly felt both options were equally bad, well I can’t imagine that perspective but at least that’s a rational stance for going none of the above with a different vote.
It often sounds like you will only vote for the perfect candidate who agrees fully with you on every thing, which is an impractical ideal.
All this said, the numbers didn’t break in a way for those third party voters to actually have mattered this time around, so despite how frustrated people may be, there’s nothing rational in harping on it for 2024.
Sadly, they both “may” be equally bad. The dems hide it well, trump flaunts it. But they both serve only the elite. Clinton was an epstien friend. And he endorsed cuomo for NY mayor because the party asked him to. They say they want to do things that help the people. But whenever the chance comes, they somehow just can’t do it. We need more parties to at least make it so people can’t just run and win by not being then other guy.
And notice how they mostly just take turns being in charge. Either it is part of thier plan, or it is just proof that neither side actually does enough to be worth voting in repeatedly. Cause they could… but they won’t. I’m from Oregon, so my vote doesn’t matter either way. We always go blue. At least that means we get less election propaganda in the mail and on the phone.
3 options. 2 outcomes.
It would be nice yes
Jesus Christ the election is long over
Simply accept that out of two outcomes (leftists uniting to vote Democrat/leftists trying to send Democrats a message by not voting them in) both would lead to terrible consequences. It was a matter of time, it just got expedited to now instead of few years later.
You cannot vote democracy in if there’s no fair democracy in the first place. Elections are over, they won’t save you, unite over what you can do instead of wasting everything you have on infighting.
Organize and protest. Join the political organizations in your area and unionize. This is a harder way, and I know it takes time and energy to figure things out and organize and take part in all the actions made, but it is the only way that works.
Please, if you aren’t already part of your local organizing teams, go search for them right now.
Barely anyone voted for third parties. I have much more blame for the people who didn’t bother voting than the people who voted third party.
I’ll also call out that “not bothering” ignores that a huge sect of the public gets their vote falsely purged, or has their polling location closed, or some other voter suppression tactic.
True, but I also read that the non voters were also about evenly split, it’s not like only the anti trump people stayed home.
He just had the popular advantage, mostly an indictment of the then status quo rather than an endorsement of Trump or indictment of Biden.
Watching Biden kiss billionaire ass was way better than watching Trump’s construction of concentration camps and also kiss billionaire ass.
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Holy shit dude. I’m just saying pitting your prefered flavor of commie against neo Hitler was a poor choice imo. Enjoy your moral superiority, you’ve earned it.
Please explain to me how the third party vote would have swayed the election if everyone chose D instead.
Maybe they were delayed in posting about the 2000 election?
Honestly that’s the best example of when the 3rd party vote WOULD have made a difference, not 2020 or 2024. So yeah, absolutely
But know shit libs, they’ll cry foul as much and as hard as they can for those of us gaining more and more class consciousness to bend the knee.
Not happening bro! Especially now since we’re not in an election season! This is the best time to start repairing the party!
Should have been the protesting non-voter.
That if is so hypothetical that if my aunt had balls would be my uncle but is not.
I meant like if everyone in the Independent group voted D, for clarity
Exactly. Trump won Michigan in 2024 by a margin greater than all the third party voters combined.
You’re blaming the one independent when there’s 80k red voters?
Of course, you can’t fix stupid. At least a communist can goddamn read, so they’re worth talking to.
You call this “talking to”?
Do you actually need a clarification, or do you just want to bicker?
I don’t want to bicker, it’s just confusing that people who are presumed worth talking to seem to almost exclusively be yelled at.
Kinda makes me wonder if maybe some of the people currently not worth talking to were previously subjected to a similar talking to.
Memes and humour are rhetoric, and speaking only for myself, I’d rather mildly joke about someone’s silly views rather than have a big grumpy debate with them. There’s a time and place to sit down and respectfully suss out a topic, and I think good comedy helps more than it hurts - even when a few people aren’t laughing.
That much is true, but I don’t think I wouldn’t call this “good comedy”, and judging from the replies in the thread - OP included - I don’t think it’s intended as a joke either, mild or otherwise. It is kinda amusing, in that victory is presented as always impossible, but I doubt that was intentional. This isn’t goodnatured ribbing, this is more, as the kids say, bait.
De gustibus some disputandum, as always
At least a communist can goddamn read
I wouldn’t say that looking at all these tankies and illiterates in Russia and China.
As a resident of a state where Democrats are going to win, regardless of what I do, a state whose tiny insignificant number of electoral votes don’t matter anyway, fuck you.
In summary
Vote blue no matter who:
Pro - Democrats more likely to win. Things won’t immediately get worse.
Con - Democrats have no incentive to do anything other than what their wealthy donors want.
Result - Things don’t get worse now, but eventual rightward drift is guaranteed because the democrats will do nothing good and the republicans will win eventually.
Vote blue only if X:
Pro - Democrats have an incentive to do something other than what their wealthy donors what, in theory.
Con - Democrats less likely to win.
Result - Democrats might do something good if they win. Rightward lurch is possible if they lose.
Can we please stop litigating this now?
Edit: The “best” approach would ultimately depend on the relative effectiveness of influencing democrat policy via primaries or whatever, and I don’t think the answer is immediately obvious. I am not advocating one approach over the other, I just want people to stop pretending the answer is obvious.
Bro, all you gotta do is die and all your credit card debit is gone. If you just keep paying the bills, then the debt stays the same until you miss a bill, and then it gets worse. If you die then the debt goes away. Why keep perpetuating the cycle? Dying is the only way to get rid of debt.
That’s what your post sounds like
Except the situation they’re describing is a multi-generational one and they’re trying to do what’s for the greater good over time, which is ironically what the more short-sighted “blue no matter who” people accuse them of not doing. Sometimes things need to be permitted to get worse before they can get better. You can’t just follow a simple greedy algorithm of taking the best possible move at every point with respect to the next state of the game. This algorithm is very easily gamed to lead to bad situations.
This community is still in denial from last year I see, I guess none of you braindeads learned your lesson huh
Even funnier now that the DNC approved candidate is running as a 3rd party in NYC after losing his own primary. Suddenly no issue voting for an independent candidate there.
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Many core issues were addressed, from climate change to women’s rights and LGBTQ+ rights, to concerns over economy (which were improving and have since been downgraded).
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Opponent was objectively worse in Every. Single. Conceivable way. It is after all, a binary choice.
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Uncommitted fucked off entirely on their, absent of any comparative logic.
The biggest thing that comes out of reading threads like this is the erosion of my original belief that I thought the uncommitted were at least smarter and strategic and and more empathetic and more aware of FPTP voting. There is one big reason why Trump won: People were duped by endless amounts of billionaire’s money, seeing Trump at his best and Harris at her worst. I thought folks like you were above that; but alas, you drank the kool-aid just the same.
Edit: For the record, I think massive change in the Democratic party must come. That is not an easy task, but it’s the easiest path.
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Literally not how elections work in any country on earth.
In my opinion, one should have voted blue, aka against red, and after vote going on the street and write dems to do their fucking job as it meant to be.
Solely because I think that dems would at least listen to the people.
And if not, there is reason to riot and one would have not to fear federal police and military as much as US people have to have now resisting.
This is a view from an outsider.
with no leverage because they know you will vote for them no matter what anyways.
The same dems that listen to people about Palestine in a election year and lost because of it?
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