• bryophile@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    “In the United States of America”.

    The birthplace of freedom and democracy. The beacon of light and justice in the world. So strange that it is happening over there. Who could have seen this coming?

    One could expect this to happen anywhere, but in the United States of America? No way.

    • Delphia@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Even the American left has had their national exceptionalism so deeply ingrained that they cant stop screaming “We’re number 1!” while they are drowning.

      Thats why they were the perfect mark. The idea that it could happen to them was so preposterous.

      • The Quuuuuill@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        i have yet to attend a graduation ceremony where someone wasn’t crying because they were getting deported the next day

    • uienia@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      I really prefer when people write “/s” for sarcasm. With Poe’s Law and all it is virtually impossible to distinguish sarcasm on the written internet.

      • bryophile@lemmy.zip
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        2 days ago

        I know, I usually do.

        But with this I thought it was laid on thick enough so the people who read it as sarcasm read it as sarcasm and the people who don’t deserve to live in confusion.

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      They don’t care, they’ll just say whomever they deported were MS13 members engaging in “violent pedophilia”.

    • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      I was listening to an interview of a progressive in my country. And based from his observation, he mentioned many politicians just don’t care. Like, really don’t care.

      There is a reason as to why politics is said to be where psychopaths coverge, because they want positions of power for power’s sake. So that explains why many politicians really don’t care.

      • kunaltyagi@programming.dev
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        2 days ago

        When you have majority of funding through corporations, why will the politicians care about people? If people start lobbying and competing for money, the politicians will start caring

        • winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          2 days ago

          Legal bribery aka lobbying needs to be taken out of politics. Money shouldn’t be involved but it is unfortunately. Even the most ‘sacred’ position is now head by a literal businessman

        • sureshot0@discuss.online
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          2 days ago

          Well yeah. Who else could you possibly be talking about? Nobody is ruining their own country, that screenshot is about people in a warzone being invaded, not people who are intentionally harming themselves.

            • sureshot0@discuss.online
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              2 days ago

              You blame victims of genocide for their own oppression, and now you’re accusing me of being a bot. This is projection, as you have no humanity yourself.

                • sureshot0@discuss.online
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                  2 days ago

                  ICE doesn’t have a city, they are not people but a legal entity. The individual people who joined ICE are traitors and are thus not American. ICE cannot destroy “their own city.” That doesn’t make any sense.

  • daddycool@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    This is what your grandparents fought and died for to prevent from ever happening again.

    • GreatWhiteBuffalo41@slrpnk.net
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      4 days ago

      Too bad our government was just like, we’ll pardon your war crimes and forget you’re a Nazi if you’re good at science and can help us do science things better than other countries!

      • vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works
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        4 days ago

        Pretty much everyone has done this historically, fuck even Rome did it. Smart people are often times worth their weight in gold especially if they made life annoying for you and your army, so they basically fall into the category of war loot.

        Also it’s usually a either you join us or we kill you situation.

        • bstix@feddit.dk
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          3 days ago

          The history of denazifying Germany shows that the Allies were torn on this.

          To summerize:

          Russia “Okay, let’s kill all the Germans.”
          Britain “Oh, but then we’re no better than them. We must make due process for all the Nazis.”
          USA “Yeah, I don’t think either of you understand the scale of this.”

          And the Americans was right. A due process would have taken centuries, and nobody wanted to pay for it.

          So that’s why the Nuremberg trials only reached the top of the iceberg and millions of Nazis got away with no other punishment than memories of shame.

          • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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            2 days ago

            Lmfao what ? First of all it’s not Russia, it’s the Soviet Union, whichh is an important discussion, and secondly they didn’t want to kill all germans, but make sure denazification was fully done, with no risk of having a single nazi left in power.

            You’re saying it as if they made an outlandish proposal and it was rejected by the others; in reality they had control of East Germany and had no need for anyone’s approval in their denazification efforts, which was successful.

            Meanwhile nazis that werent notorious enough or part of the holocaust were basically put back in power in West Germany.

            • bstix@feddit.dk
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              2 days ago

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification

              Soviet zone: From the beginning, denazification in the Soviet zone was considered a critical element of the transformation into a socialist society and was quickly and effectively implemented. Members of the Nazi Party and its organizations were often brutally beaten before being arrested and interned. The NKVD was directly in charge of this process and oversaw the camps. In 1948, the camps were placed under the same administration as the gulag in the Soviet government. According to official records, 122,600 people were interned; 34,700 of those interned in this process were considered to be Soviet citizens, with the rest being German

              Let’s math: 122600-34700= 87900 Germans.

              Former Nazi officials quickly realized that they would face fewer obstacles and investigations in the zones controlled by the Western Allies. Many of them saw a chance to defect to the West on the pretext of anti-communism. Conditions in the internment camps were terrible, and between 42,000 and 80,000 prisoners died.

              Sure they never directly stated that they deliberately wanted to kill all the Nazi, but the result is still that they did kill a good chunk of them (between 50-90%) in the camps.

              • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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                2 days ago

                Well yeah, killing the Nazis is effective denazification, I don’t object to that in any measure.

                You didn’t say “kill all the Nazis” though, you said “kill all the Germans”

          • MrMakabar@slrpnk.net
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            3 days ago

            We actually kind of have the alternative to that as well. In Iraq the US took all members of the Baath party of Hussein. It was very clearly a horrible organization, which commited genocide and many other crimes, but doing so removed all sorts of people from power, which had usefull skills and kind of needed to be party members. For example when you built roads, you really need engineers in the government to check if that road is actually going to be built correctly. Even worse they through the secret service and military members into the same prison as islamic terrorists. So when the US left Iraq, those terrorists got access to people with a very particular set of skills.

            Really the only way to go about it, is to built up the alternative in the back, trial the worsed cases and keep the Nazis or whatever other evil group from gaining power.

            • Sanctus@anarchist.nexus
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              3 days ago

              That literally is what we did and it didnt work. Kill them. So they can never do it again. The Soviets were right.

              • MrMakabar@slrpnk.net
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                2 days ago

                Iraq did not collapse due to the Baath party members taking over. It collapsed due too few competent people in positions of power. That opened up the prisons and allowed the Baath party members to take over. Killing them would not have stopped Iraq from collapsing, when the US left.

                • Sanctus@anarchist.nexus
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                  2 days ago

                  For whatever reason I thought you were talking about ww2 and the nazis. I must have not been paying enough attention scrolling the chain

    • uienia@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      It was pretty much still happening in the South while those grandparents were busy fighting it elsewhere. And it continued to happen in the US south for decades after WWII.

  • 14th_cylon@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    write it on a paper? who doesn’t remember single address without writing it down?

    it is not really the point of the message, but it kinda is…

    • Tryenjer@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      If memory weren’t so tattered, people wouldn’t be repeating history, though.

    • BCsven@lemmy.ca
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      2 days ago

      My wife. She’s hopeless at remembering an address. She can remember every time I forgot to refill the toilet paper though.

  • ByteJunk@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    What the actual fuck. This is straight from Anne Frank’s diary, just change their coats.

  • speckofrust@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    4 days ago

    Still waiting for US citizens to organize a nationwide strike that doesn’t end until ICE terror ends. What’s it gonna take?

    • Jyek@sh.itjust.works
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      3 days ago

      The problem is that most of us that would protest are not in a financial position to do so. If I participate in a work strike, I won’t make the money I need to pay my bills, I’ll be evicted, I’ll go hungry, I won’t be able to feed the family or the pets I will go destitute long before actual change happens. I’m not just making sacrifices, I am making that decision for my whole family. And that’s just the surface level changes. I cannot afford to leave where I am currently. I believe that is all by design and I am not even close to the minority situation.

      • TerdFerguson@lemmy.world
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        3 days ago

        Yeah, its not a viable option for everyone. Clandestine methods are an option.

        In France, they light things on fire.

      • speckofrust@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        3 days ago

        I guess US citizens are then in a financial situation similar to what US foreign policy has encouraged in several regions of the world.

        Anyone can downvote all they want, but US interventionism has had terrible consequences that most US citizens are not even aware of, yet people push back, they resist, despite much greater poverty than most people in the US have to suffer.

        I’m confident that US citizens can eventually do something concrete against their most recent criminal regime, of which there have been many. We haven’t even yet seen the level of pushback that was mounted during the war on Vietnam, and armed thugs are out there killing your citizens and kidnapping people off the streets.

        I just hope that pushback comes sooner than later because history shows us that people outside the US tend to suffer much more due to US policy than people inside the US.

        • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca
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          3 days ago

          A huge percentage of unions in Minnesota are reporting not being able to pay rent next week.

      • Tiresia@slrpnk.net
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        3 days ago

        So fight off the ones that would kick people out and replace the ones that would turn the lights off.

          • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
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            3 days ago

            That is the argument everytime they try to tell people not to vote. Which is not only contradictory it’s just delusional.

          • Tiresia@slrpnk.net
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            3 days ago

            Yes, exactly, now you get it.

            It’s either that or waiting for the fascists to murder you. So get to it.

              • Tiresia@slrpnk.net
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                3 days ago

                I’m not American so I can’t help directly.

                Still, while I obviously can’t write here what I’m doing, I’m confident it qualifies as “me going first”. If we were with more people, we could do more than make the news a couple times per year.

                So… you next?

  • jj4211@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Actually heard from a colleague there that he was actively doing just that, at least a few weeks ago. Complete with the cloak and dagger about coordinating it offline and avoiding active patrols and protests that would similarly draw too much attention.

    Yes, awfully 1930s German scenario that happened there.

        • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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          3 days ago

          Yeah, we did, and the people who purposefully threw the election rather than compromise one bit with what the people wanted are responsible.

            • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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              3 days ago

              Because if you want anything to change, the pressure has got to be applied in the right direction. If people just keep blaming their neighbours, of course no politician will ever feel like they have to do anything to improve things.

              • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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                3 days ago

                If you want anything to change, you need to take effective actions. The consequence politicians face by taking ineffective actions is maybe not winning their race. The consequence our neighbors face by taking ineffective actions is the erosion of their civil rights.

                If you actually want to pressure politicians, you do it by contacting them directly to inform them of their failings, they’re not just going to magically know why you didn’t vote or vote third party.

                Protest voting doesn’t apply the pressure you think it does.

                • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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                  3 days ago

                  If you actually want to pressure politicians, you do it by contacting them directly to inform them of their failings

                  Sure, that’s a thing you should do

                  they’re not just going to magically know why you didn’t vote or vote third party

                  They actually expend substantial effort and sums of money to find this out, there’s nothing magical about it.

                  Protest voting doesn’t apply the pressure you think it does.

                  On the other hand, voting for them anyway if they do something absolutely abhorrent and beyond any kind of humanity tells them they can get away with anything and is just a race to the bottom.

        • Jännät@sopuli.xyz
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          3 days ago

          But hey, at least they didn’t get Kamala Harris, who would somehow been worse than literal fascism

          • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world
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            3 days ago

            “You must accept this boot to the neck or we let the crazy guy shoot you,” isn’t the slam dunk argument you think it is.

            • Jännät@sopuli.xyz
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              Yes I’m sure Harris would have been terrible, a real boot to the neck indeed. Better to have Trump instead

    • explodicle@sh.itjust.works
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      4 days ago

      The right: these extremists decide elections so we’ll make it our whole platform again

      The left: these extremists decide elections so we’ll blame them again

          • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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            4 days ago

            Nobody thinks that.

            Some of them think that it would have eventually reached this point anyway, if not under this republican administration, then the next one. And there’s a good case for that.

            Others think you can’t sign on to far worse atrocities that just happen to be perpetrated elsewhere in the world, no matter what, because you are then personally complicit. Also a valid viewpoint.

            The performative cruelty that this administration is practicing is genuinely a new low, it’s true. But the burden of doing something about it was and is on people with institutional power, not random ordinary people. The democrats could easily have won the election and they chose not to, and after the trump team, they are the ones to blame next.

            • BassTurd@lemmy.world
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              4 days ago

              The people that voted for Trump are first to blame. People that didn’t vote are second. It’s that simple. There are reasons why a person may have decided not to vote, but none of them change that fact that not voting was effectively a vote for Trump. I view non voters a small step above Trump voters. They at least have the same level of intelligence and critical thinking skills as one another.

              • porous_grey_matter@lemmy.ml
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                4 days ago

                not voting was effectively a vote for Trump

                That’s totally fallacious. Not voting is not voting. The only way to arrive at that conclusion is that you think that one specific party is by default entitled to votes, no matter what they do, which is wrong. Politicians have to earn votes. They chose a platform which was not popular and so they lost. And they did that to protect specific interests.

                I do get being upset at people who are nominally on your side but decided not to vote. It’s understandable. But in no way are they anywhere near as much to blame as the people who had a more than two billion dollar marketing budget for their political campaign and decided “fuck what the people want”.

                • village604@adultswim.fan
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                  4 days ago

                  With the way our first past the goalposts system works, it’s true. By not voting you’re saying that you’re fine with either outcome.

                  When one of those options has straight up told you they’ll be a dictator on day one and you’ll never vote again, as well as publishing their playbook on how they’re going to do it, choosing to not vote against them is saying you’re fine with it.

                  And it’s not like protest voting actually hurt the DNC. It just hurt every vulnerable person in the country.

                • BassTurd@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  No it’s fact. Not voting supports the less good candidate 100% of the time in FPtP.

                  And yes, non voters are more responsible for this than the DNC sending a shit message. If non voters and third party voted Kamala, we wouldn’t have a dictator in the White house right now. The DNC didn’t put him there, voters for Trump and non voters did.

              • Optional@lemmy.worldOP
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                4 days ago

                Just so you know, you’re replying to .ml there. I mean, I agree, but reasoned discussion isn’t going to win out with the leftist leftists that ever lefted.

                • BassTurd@lemmy.world
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                  4 days ago

                  Yea, I saw that after processing the comment. Still, I want people that may be unaware and read the comment chain to understand the reality. Silence is complacency.

              • thlibos@thelemmy.club
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                4 days ago

                Do third party voters come in between those two options or after “didn’t vote”?

                Seriously, it’s all true. It is the fault of Trump Voters, the DNC, 3rd party voters, and non-voters.

                Hell, I’ll go one further and say those who do nothing but vote for the most progressive Dem in the primary and then vote for the Dem no matter who it is AND that is all they have ever done to address how terrible the Dem party is, also share in the blame.

            • Krono@lemmy.today
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              4 days ago

              Both sides onviously aren’t the same, one is more evil than the other. But they are both evil.

              Obama has the blood of tens of thousands of innocent civilians on his hands, shame on anyone helping him wash.